this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
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The long fight to make Apple's iMessage compatible with all devices has raged with little to show for it. But Google (de facto leader of the charge) and other mobile operators are now leveraging the European Union's Digital Market Act (DMA), according to the Financial Times. The law, which goes into effect in 2024, requires that "gatekeepers" not favor their own systems or limit third parties from interoperating within them. Gatekeepers are any company that meets specific financial and usage qualifications, including Google's parent company Alphabet, Apple, Samsung and others.

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[–] joyjoy@lemm.ee 47 points 1 year ago (8 children)

But nobody in Europe uses iMessage.

[–] tony@lemmy.hoyle.me.uk 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I presume apple users do occasionally..

I guess this is a way for google to force apple to open the protocol since they can't just open it in the EU, so it affects the US too. But the EU don't have to listen to google.. if imessage is such a minor player they may just leave it alone.

[–] narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

We use it when WhatsApp has server problems every once in a while or for a round of GamePigeon.

Ironically, in Europe you'd be "missing out" on most group conversations if you'd insist on using iMessage, as most of your buddies probably have an Android phone with WhatsApp installed.

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[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I never understood why WhatsApp is so popular. I used it (a long time ago) and just don't see it.

[–] WetBeardHairs@lemmy.ml 42 points 1 year ago

It's the network effect. Everyone else uses it - so it is easier to just use it than to not use it.

[–] nicetriangle@kbin.social 30 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Basically in a lot of Europe texting was or still is expensive and not unlimited and WhatsApp was a free alternative and Meta did not own it at the time.

So everyone was like well fuck texting and adopted apps like WhatsApp and then Meta bought WhatsApp. Now in these countries it's the defacto standard whether you like it or not. Businesses, people, and even sometimes government uses it as the default way to text. It sucks.

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[–] Apollo2323@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Because it gave the possibility of free text and calling over the internet , that was a big deal for many developing countries and it is very simple to use. Like I heard some Apple fanboys said that iMessage comes already installed with the phone? And on my mind I am like : How hard is to download an app and just put your phone number you are up and running in less than 2 minutes.

[–] nicetriangle@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

Even in non developing countries. Texting has historically been expensive and limited in a lot of the EU. My plan is still limited to something like 150 texts a month and I'd have to pay extra to work around that, but even if I did it wouldn't be worth the money because nobody uses text here.

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[–] Swarfega@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

No. But we have the same reliance now on WhatsApp as the US does with iMessage.

I'd love to see RCS become the norm so I can ditch WhatsApp.

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[–] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 45 points 1 year ago (5 children)

The fuck is with all these comments? Since when are we siding with Apple and closed off communications standards around here?

[–] snowe@programming.dev 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Since Google is just trying to get people to use their closed off communication standard (they added a bunch of stuff to RCS and that’s what they want the eu to force Apple to use). And I don’t trust Google with anything anymore, not sure why you would. The killed by Google website is proof enough of that.

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[–] mintiefresh@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago

It's a bit shocking to see actually. But Lemmy kind of surprised me from time to time.

Anyhow, it would be really nice to see iMessage work with RCS.

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[–] kaitco@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago (5 children)

This feels a bit like asking MS Teams to play nice with Google Meet, or demanding that Apple’s office suite (Pages, Numbers, etc.) deliver the exact same product when files are saved in an OpenOffice format. This doesn’t seem to be an issue with any other products…

Apple have designed their product to work well with their devices. The Messages app still functions with non-Apple devices. SMS messages can be sent and received to anyone. The fact that pictures and whatever come through like crap is more an issue with the SMS platform than it is with Apple’s app.

Ultimately, Google dislikes the fact that there is a “green bubble” stigma (for lack of a better word) on Apple devices that encourages those who care about such things to prefer Apple devices. Because Google doesn’t have their own widely used iMessage equivalent, they can’t turn around and make messages outside their platform appear as red bubbles or something, so they are attacking from this angle instead.

Sent from my iPhone

[–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Sent from my iPhone

That's hilarious

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[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

It's quite literally well documented that Apple doesn't want to support RCS because it pressures people to get iPhones. SMS is an ancient garbage protocol, what Google is trying to do is get Apple to support SMSs 21st century replacement and RCS support will fix literally every issue iPhone users have texting Android users. Broken group chats, trash quality videos, ultra compressed images, no reactions or stickers, threaded chats etc etc

[–] beeng@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Yes but there is no green bubble stigma in Europe... We all use whatsapp and signal.

[–] Satelllliiiiiiiteeee@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, fuck, there's no green bubble stigma in the US either. I have never once heard people complain about it in the real world

[–] morrowind@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

You're lucky then, I hear people complain about it all the time

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[–] pascal@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Oh, now you want Europe's strong arm? Google? Now? Fuck off, you yankee!

EDIT: Also, we European literally don't care. Everyone is using Whatsapp or Telegram. There's no "Blue vs green bubble" war here in Europe, only America can get angry on such idiocy.

[–] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago

Let's be clear - only a subset of Americans care about the bubbles. And it's annoying to the rest of us too.

The iMessage approach is the obvious solution, Google had a competitor over 10 years ago and killed it. Signal took the same approach and killed SMS just this year.

It's frustrating, because US has the particular problem of SMS being ubiquitous because it became zero-additional-cost for most people by about 2005. The same mindset that keeps people on SMS also creates the blue-bubble nonsense: ease of use and not having to think about it. Signal was making inroads on this, makes me wonder why they stopped supporting SMS.

I have friends who say "I don't want to have to think about where to message someone". Oh, ffs, do you struggle with calling their home/work/cell, or choosing to email or send a letter?

So yea, it's not America vs the rest of the world, it's us vs the complacent/unaware.

[–] Zummy@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I get that this is a silly issue that only a subset of Americans actually care about, but if you think that Google is doing this for any other reason other than that they don’t like how popular iMessage is and want it to end, you’re fooling yourself. Google hopes to eventually make more money when one barrier between an Android and iPhone is removed.

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[–] soulfirethewolf@lemdro.id 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wrapping an internet messaging service with a text messaging system was probably one of the worst things that Apple did.

When I had switched to Android, I was hoping I'd still be able to use iMessage from my iPad occasionally, But eventually I had to give up because whenever I sent an iMessage from my email, my family would just try responding from there as well, Even when I sent a SMS message afterwards.

I managed to convince my father to download WhatsApp (since he doesn't want to use signal or telegram, and personally, I don't really like signals lack of external features like no smartwatch app or assistant integration. And I don't know why not Telegram), but the only other messaging platform my mom uses is Facebook Messenger so that kind of sucks that it's my only option for communicating outside of SMS. Can't really convince my sister to switch to something else (and she blocked me on discord for whatever reason, probably because she's 16 and going through this huge phase right now and I tend to use my sona for almost all online accounts as opposed to my real name)

My family kept complaining that by using something else beyond SMS, requiring them to check yet another messaging app, I'd be complicating their lives too far. But I'm still continuing because there is absolutely no reason for me and my family to be using SMS anymore, and I personally would like to have things like typing indicators and higher quality media back

On a side note, why is Facebook Messenger so much worse than WhatsApp despite being owned by the same company?

[–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

They didn't make WhatsApp, they bought it. And were smart enough to leave it mostly alone. They don't even really need to outright spy on convos, just sucking in all the contacts, building shadow profiles and figuring out relations from who's talking to whom is worth gold.

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Although, I get the argument and sure go ahead and do it.

I have to laugh at Google calling for the regulation of Apples monopoly but are happy to maintain their monopolies.

It’s be like Apple calling out Bowers & Wilkins for high prices.

Or Bezos calling for more piss breaks for Walmart staff.

Glass houses and stones.

[–] AaronNBrock@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Until Google supports RCS on Google voice, I can't take their requests seriously.

[–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's an interesting point. I have Google voice but I honestly don't use it much. Are you a big Google voice user?

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[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (11 children)

The messages app supports SMS. That means it already “interoperates” with common messaging apps and platforms.

[–] joyjoy@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago

SMS is the bare minimum. The only reason iPhone supports it is because it was supported before iMessage was a thing. It was also so it could still communicate with "dumb" phones.

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[–] RGB3x3@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

All I want is to be able to message people using discord through Signal. Or from Messages to Whatsapp. And just be able to send and receive decent quality videos between iMessage and non-imessage users.

It's so annoying having to juggle so many different messaging apps just to talk to people.

Why can't it be like email?

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[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Google and company can go fuck themselves on this one, and I'm usually the first one to bash on Apple for selling overpriced status symbols.

I'm frankly amazed at how much importance Google gives iMessage, when it's not the number 1 messaging app anywhere in the world. Hell, even if you assume Apple halved its report of monthly active users in Europe, that's 90 million people in Europe. Significant, but less than 25% of the total population of the EU

Outside USA and Canada, you'll be hard pressed to find people who give a damn about iMessage, because most are using a different, cross compatible app anyway, like Whatsapp or Telegram, even across most European countries.

[–] notenoughbutter@lemmy.ml 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

because iMessage is probably the number 1 reason for iphone purchase in USA

this will obviously help google gain market share in the us

[–] Builtin@lemmy.one 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Why would you be against standardizing messaging over the net? How is that a bad thing?

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[–] mojo@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

SMS would basically be dead if Apple adopted RCS, that's why it's important. SMS needs to die.

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[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Because apparently you get very annoying workarounds from the incompatibility.

[–] Erasmus@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

As much as I have been on the EU’s side on every case that they’ve had against Apple. This should be a giant red flag that Google is pushing this so hard.

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