The gap between Messi and whoever is closest is bigger than the gap between LeBron and Anthony Bennet. 🤫
this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023
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Messi has become incredibly overrated, especially on reddit.
Shit post
Mate, do you even watch football? Messi is the "undisputed goat", whatever that means, if you think football started being a thing in the 2010's.
He's the greatest player of this generation, though some people make a very valid argument for CR7, but anything beyond that is far from undisputed.
The sport changed a lot and that has greatly benefited Messi's individual stats and achievements:
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Way more games are played, especially against lesser teams. UCL used to be knockout rounds only, a total of less than 10 matches if you went to the final, nowadays teams are guaranteed 6 by just qualifying, and each of the Top4 leagues qualifies 4 teams, while back then it was exclusively for the previous years' Champions (hence the name Champions League). People played way less games in CL over their careers, and to go far luck was a huge factor. WC and Continental Cups were the same, nowadays you have way more meaningless games to get your G/A numbers up, especially in the qualifiers.
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The offside rules changed since when Pelé and Maradona played to make it easier for attackers to score. Also refs nowadays are waaaay more punitive with defenders. The way Italy defended Maradona at the 82 WC would have cost them 2/3 red cards nowadays.
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Fair play unwritten rules changed. Back then once you were up like 2-0 or 3-0 it was fair play to just slow the game down and not try to score more. Nowadays it's the opposite, it's considered more insulting if you just stop playing once you're up.
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Voting for individual awards has changed dramatically from "best player on the most high achieving team of the year" to "best player in the world regardless of how the season played out". With the old voting "criteria" Lewandowski, Iniesta or Sneijder and Robben or Ribéry would get 3 of Messi's Ballon D'Ors. No doubt Messi is a better and greater player than they were, but he didn't deserve the award those years.
Football is a traditionally defensive sport that very recently was skewed towards the offense to market it better. This makes the numbers of contemporary players sound more impressive, but it doesn't make them absolutely better than the previous generations, relative to their peers.
If you go to Brazil, the answer to who's the greatest of all time is going to be Pelé, and I'd wager a lot of people would say R9, probably as many as those who'd say Messi.
If you go to Argentina Messi and Maradona will be a fierce debate. In southern Italy Maradona isn't even in the GOAT debate he's in the God debate.
In the Netherlands a lot of people would say Cruijff, and it wouldn't be an objectively wrong answer.
If you think there's objectively an answer to who the greatest of all time is, in a sport that has been the most popular all over the world for about a century you're mistaken, and if you think that answer has been undisputed since 2013 you're delusional.
How does XR7
If you had to focus on a throwaway line instead of the rest you're just a fanboy.
I clearly stated my opinion on the debate: Messi is the better player, and I believe this debate will fade in time like the Maradona vs Platini one. On the other hand, if you believe the argument is so one sided that no one could plausibly give a different answer then you're just biased.
Ronaldo played 150 more games, 3 seasons worth, at a high level and that's in itself an achievement, not a knock. They both virtually retired already so being able to last more at a high level is indeed important.
Nobody cares about Copa del Rey or the various Supercups. For trophies that actually matter: 9 to 8 in Top 4 League wins for Messi, 5 to 4 for Ronaldo in Champions Leagues, including a 3peat which hadn't been done since the 70's. In International play Ronaldo has a Euro with a team that had never won anything, Messi has a Copa America and the WC with a team that won both several times. Seems fairly evenly matched to me.
Ronaldo is physically superior in every way, and is orders of magnitude better in the air.
Ronaldo proved himself in multiple Leagues and contexts, excelling both in the most physical one (EPL) and in the most technical one (Liga), winning a lot in both, nationally and internationally. Messi didn't. He played basically his entire career in Spain and then he took a short trip to France where he only collected underwhelming results.
All of these are definitely fair arguments for people to use in a debate. Again, I believe Messi is definitely the better player, but believing it is such a one sided argument is just plain wrong.
Proper answer. Thank you.
Can't this sub ban GOAT talk for good? Most obnoxious and boring topic that goes fucking nowhere.
Bait, off topic, nonsensical, dumb, childish, uninformed, clown, reasons why this sub is turning into garbage, etc
Lol Messi is not the undisputed GOAT 🤣
Messi undisputed GOAT? LMAO.
Only in the eyes of zoomers. The only undisputed GOAT is Pelé. He's your GOAT's GOAT.
I think Cristiano Ronaldo had a better peak than Messi, and other than a World Cup his longetivity and stats are equally impressive. And this is not even taking into account all the greats from other eras. To say he’s the undisputed GOAT is idiotic.