Good. Non-replaceable batteries benefit no one but device manufacturers and miners of lithium, cobalt, etc.
this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2023
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I don't think it would really benefit or harm the lithium miners and battery manufacturers - in fact it might benefit them more if they could sell their batteries directly to consumers and skip the middleman, keeping those profits for themselves.
Yeah, you're right. I didn't think that through properly.
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EU doing all the heavy regulatory lifting that American politicians are too afraid to touch. As both an American and an avid Apple enthusiast, I sincerely appreciate it.
Apple will do something to ensure only batteries from them work right, mark my words.
Apple will do something to ensure only batteries from them work right, mark my words.
They tried doing this with the upcoming USB C cables but EU stepped in by making sure that every cable will work without any limitations on transfer and charging speeds.
I fully expect Apple claim that the EU is an environmental terrorist by having "disposable batteries being thrown out after their charge is depleted" and that somehow having batteries being certified by Apple prevents that.
Apple will do something to ensure only batteries from them work right, mark my words.
Still a slight win though!
Well if only official Apple batteries will work, then that means Apple will jack up the price to something ridiculous, because they'll be the only option for a battery.
So hopefully third party batteries would work as well. I think third party batteries work in iPhones at the moment. So if we're able to install them much more easily then that would be very good.
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Certainly. But I hope the EU regulators do the same trick as they did with the USB C port rregulation. It is against the rules to make it a walled garden.
Thank you EU for actually having functional legal protections.
They need to hit the final nail on the head. All smart phones sold in Europe must have fully documented and open source hardware including the entire chipset, all peripherals, and the modem, with all registers and interfaces documented, the full API, and all programing documentation along with a public toolchain that can reproduce the software as shipped with the device and updated with any changes made to future iterations as soon as the updated software is made available.
This law would make these devices lifetime devices, if you choose; as in your lifetime. It would murder the disposable hardware culture, and it should happen now. Moore's law is dead. The race is over.
At least we can start with unlockable bootloader. Or at least, the second you're discontinuing OS updates, you must give a bootloader unlocking tool + kernel sources. Including apple, shame that a device like an iPhone X is "e-waste" now that won't receive updates
I doubt manufacturers would want to put millions upon millions into research and development if they'd have to open source it all anyways.
They want to sell to every large market and will do what they are required to do in order to access this market. All of these companies have the ability to completely reverse engineer any competing hardware. There are no secrets. Proprietary is not about protecting business or IP. It only exists to exploit the end user. All of these tools and documentation already exist. In the past they were public. The only reason they are not public now is because corporations realized the can get away with it. Capitalism ruins everything you allow it to touch. The only way to stop it is by force. Corporations are the worthless sludge of humanity. You are what matters, not them. They have no rights.
The European Parliament just caused a major headache for smartphone and tablet manufacturers.
Laughs in Fairphone.
Man i wish i would not have been a cheapo and gotten myself a fairphone.
wonder how apple will react to this. lack of user repairability is a considerable source of revenue for them.
I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to do the same thing as the printer companies. and install authentication chips in the battery modules so that only official apple batteries could be installed in Apple devices - then sell their batteries at marked up prices
"We made them easily available and replaceable, what more could you want?"
I don't like Apple but battery is the one thing I wouldn't mess around with and buy from a cheap 3rd party vendor. Batteries tend to go boom and if it's a cheap knock-off you increase your chances. Since it will be law we will most likely get a bunch of 3rd party vendors, I would maybe see myself buying from an established battery manufacturer but not from a quick Amazon search or from the small repair shop on the corner.
While you have a point there, I wouldn't be surprised if we had reputable third party battery companies sell phone batteries as well
- Especially if the smartphone battery size is standardized to a set of standards (I doubt that will happen, but it's nice to dream) hell if this happened Energizer and Duracell might also jump on the lithium bandwagon.
They are already matching serial numbers in software to verify if a part is still the original one, so I guess the next logical step would be indeed to switch to authentication modules. With that they would allow users to change the parts on their own while still making lots of money
it’s sad that replaceable batteries got extinct in just a few years. In my opinion replaceable battery is a great selling point and I know I’m not the only one so I’m surprised that the market are not able to provide this..
Especially now a days when phones have stagnated and having a 5 year old phone is nothing strange anymore.
I used to have a replaceable battery to my old LG G3 and it was great to just swap batteries and directly having a fully charged phone. Now I always have to have power banks or try to charge up during train rides or whatever and having to worry that I don’t have enough juice
I have an old phone that works fine except it cannot be charged. Was looking into charging the battery in a friend's identical phone, and putting the charged battery into mine.
I would have to dismantle the entire phone and remove the screen just to get to the battery. Absolutely ridiculous.
I replaced it with a Fairphone, which I promote every time I get the chance to.
Yes ! I loved that. My previous phone has a dead battery, and I can't get it replaced because the manufacturer doesn't make the battery anymore.
what phone?
it’s sad that replaceable batteries got extinct in just a few years. In my opinion replaceable battery is a great selling point and I know I’m not the only one so I’m surprised that the market are not able to provide this..
Especially now a days when phones have stagnated and having a 5 year old phone is nothing strange anymore.
I used to have a replaceable battery to my old LG G3 and it was great to just swap batteries and directly having a fully charged phone. Now I always have to have power banks or try to charge up during train rides or whatever and having to worry that I don’t have enough juice
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Anyone else thinking about how their phone is going to be water proof made this way? I kinda like the comfort of them being waterproof.
probably the same way most waterproof devices with removable batteries, like action cams, they use rubber gaskets
I suppose, and the sim cards use that. Guess I have to see it in action without the batteries becoming too small or the phone too fat.
Never occurred to me people thought companies made these phones for naferious/profit purposes. I usually buy used yet only had batteries go bad after years.
Thank you EU. Both my laptop and phone have non-replaceable batteries. It's ridiculous I have to buy a whole new device when the battery wears out. A Li-Ion battery lasts three years, I can easily get double that off the device itself. It's anti-consumer and bad for the environment, replacing a whole device and disposing of it rather than replacing the battery.
Yes, I had to replace battery on 2-3year old iPhone same years ago. And also had battery issues after 3 years on my previous android phone.
Once replaced the iPhone battery on a non apple approved repair shop, it wasn't good for long. Whatever it was due to the repair shop putting a cheap battery or Apple scumbagery I have no idea.
Awesome!
So... At the end lf the article, it also mention non-recheargeable battery used in devices. But where? (watch, maybe?). All of those I know are the easiliy repleaceable ones which can also be switched with recheargeable one's.
(Actually, if Wikipedia is to trust and up to date. Those so called primary battery indeed have an important market share)
I mean pretty much all batteries even now are user replaceable, it just depends on skill of the user, but I know they mention EASILY replacable, so I am very curious about their definition of "easily" since it means something different for everyone.
The term "user" has some implied level of technical skill (or lack).
If have to use the binocular microscope and soldering station at work (as I did for headphones last month) then I don't count that as "user replaceable".
Every country should do this. It's just a shame we have to wait until 2027 to see these phones.
Fairphone does this now and have for years.
Yes but their price is kinda steep
There are cheaper phones with better specs out there, without a doubt. But few, if any, with the same focus on repairability and sustainability.
I do not like this, at all.
I don’t want to replace my battery. I want my battery to last. 5 years, at least.
This legislation will achieve the opposite and paves the way for batteries that are just crap and need replacement after 12 or 18 months. The companies have no motivation to make better batteries, protect them better against premature degradation.
Sounds good, but generates a lot of trash.
The hell are you talking about? Every phone with a user replaceable battery that I have had is still alive and well today. And some of them are over 10 years old. Their batteries are obviously no longer in top shape, but they are still usable. And because they are user replaceable, if it dies, I will just put in a new one.
Even if you are right. Just vote with your wallet. A battery that degenerates too quickly will just kill the sales of the phone it is in.
Also cameras have replaceable batteries. Most live for longer than a modern phone.
And lastly, for fun, let's say your battery died too quickly because the manufacturer is a dipstick. Just buy a different brand of battery!
Imagine how much easier repairs will be and how much lower the amount of e-waste will be when you can just replace your battery without any tools or knowledge of how to disassemble a smartphone.
Repairability is always something to strive towards. Remember when laptop manufacturers said that a user repairable laptop would be too cumbersome and thick and look bad etc. Then Framework came along and made a wonderful laptop that is user repairable and has tons of cool features. And once you want to upgrade to a more modern CPU, you can upgrade the motherboard and upcycle the older one into a media center, a mini pc or whatever else people have already thought up.
Also it will be fun to watch giant phone companies throw a fit about how this will stifle innovation (ahem Apple). Phones right now require tons of tools to open safely and successfully, because they are glued shut. The excuse they provide is that it is required for water resistance. And yet there were phones with a user replaceable battery and water resistance. And nowadays even phones without water resistance are glued shut.
And the manufacturers call this innovation apparently. That is sad. And it is sad that you believe them.
So, if your phones‘ batteries last 10 years - why do you even need a replaceable battery?
That's why the proposal states that if the battery outlasts the lifespan of the product it does not need to be replaceable. Currently, and in the near-mid future, that just won't be the case. Batteries are one of the components that fail the most in any smartphone. A user replaceable battery makes the difference between one part of e-waste and a whole device.
Why not both? 8)
Awesome, just like 7 years ago it was standard. Phones with good specs are gonna last forever with this change
My three iPhones were the only devices that had non-replaceable batteries. Every device before and after those had it including my current one; Samsung XCover 6Pro
Bought a xcover 4s for this reason, 3 years later it ended up dying for absolutely no reason. Battery is fine tho, even bought another to make sure that wasn’t it.
When you can’t test voltage because you have no idea what it’s supposed to be, it makes any réparation absolutely impossible (other than something visually broken)
2027 seems kinda weak sauce. Maybe it is more reasonable than I feel given I don't know much about hardware design timelines, but I honestly was hoping for more of a middle finger to companies that have embraced the anti-consumer practice of using non-replaceable batteries.
Well if the deadline was 2025, then the EU just probably wouldn't have any new smart phones until 2027 anyway. I think its a decent compromise that gives manufacturers a chance to redesign their new models.
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