this post was submitted on 31 May 2025
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[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

So it turns out that the years I spent arguing all over the internet were the most useful years ever for AI training data.

Before me, there was practically no information on the internet, and it's mostly lost to time.

After me, the well has been poisoned with AIs masquerading as humans.

So I can rest assured that when you see an AI arguing about some pointless nonsense... that's a little bit of me. I am an immortal spirit of pedantry.

[–] AbnormalHumanBeing@lemmy.abnormalbeings.space 90 points 3 days ago (7 children)

I don't know about the "no real life effects". As a teenager, I was dangerously close to falling down a conspiracy theorist rabbit hole, back then with 9/11-"truthers". It was online arguments I witnessed, where their arguments got dismantled by people knowing what they are talking about, that got me out of there before I got in too deep.

Similarily, loneliness once got me adjacent to the proto-"manosphere" before it was a thing as it is today. But arguing with them about how they are wrong about womens' roles historically, claiming they were "privileged" in ways they objectively weren't turned me off of their bullshit really quickly.

I know arguing online has become more exhausting ever since, but I think there might be a bit of an overly dismissive reaction present with a lot of people on the internet. Developing your own ideas against opposition is still something worthwhile in many cases. And online, there's usually at least some kind of audience, that gets influenced by discussions - for better or worse.

That being said, I may be overthinking things. Because any discussion, where your goal is "totally destroying the opponent" is usually in the category of least worthwhile discussions to have.

[–] Donkter@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This is how I think of it. I'm not arguing on the Internet to change the person's mind. I'm arguing to make sure anyone reading the thread in the future doesn't come away with the impression that the other person's argument is flawless.

I'm happy to end an argument by just repeating the facts that the other person is getting wrong. I know their mind isn't getting changed but I hope that anyone that comes along later will be able to read the thread and clearly understand the logical disconnect the other person's argument has.

Especially arguing against someone in certain subcultures like the manosphere, yeesh. Their arguments are so subjective and centered around feelings that often all you can do is point that out and hope someone who comes along later sees that their arguments really make no sense.

[–] 3dmvr@lemm.ee 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yep, big problem on the internet is the influx of children posting/commenting everywhere since everyone has devices and internet access while kids third places online no longer exist. Like club penguin. Instead they share the same social media we do which is wild, but now 1000s of kids that stay online all say will have their objectively wrong opinions overwhelm anyone with sense.

[–] 3dmvr@lemm.ee 2 points 2 days ago

I was a kid with the internet, but there was internet etiquette, rules everywhere, like I genuinely was able to avoid spoilers everywhere. Social media was kind of a thing but not used the way it is now, ppl actually shared their raw thoughts for better or worse lol. If you didn't know what you were talking about youd get shit on by ppl with sources, now you get a ton of ppl just like you who dont know what they're talking about agreeing and validating you

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 10 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

The key is to know why you're communicating and under what implicit rules and beliefs. Some people want to learn something, to spread a message, to impart info, to vent, to feel important, to have fun, to perform for an audience, to feel understood...your job first of all is to figure out what your interlocutor's aim is and if it is different from yours, to bear that in mind before get so invested that you can't let it go.

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 days ago

good internet argument there.

[–] Bonesince1997@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago

Not overthinking. Just covering the whole topic! Those are some good points/examples.

[–] wulrus@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Interesting! Do you think you would have gotten out with filter bubbles and Echo Chambers as they are these days?

Good question. Genuinely impossible for me to know, actually. On the one hand, things don't feel like they had been radically different back then, I was stuck in a bubble full of people sharing "Zeitgeist" (that shitty "documentary") and circlejerking each other about how they are wiser and more intelligent for months - in b4 jokes about Lemmy not being any different. My father, an old Stalinist made cynical and paranoid by the dissolution of the Soviet Union, of course also immediately supported it on the principle of "anything anti US must be true and righteous!" So I had my work laid out for me, there.

But some stuff trickled through, like in, wow does that date things, Google Video comments which I remember seeing vividly. Or the odd visitor to a forum getting off an argument before being banned as a "shill". Or, interestingly enough, I also got there because the circle-jerky nature of those spaces had them talk about people working for the CIA or some shit, to argue with them - which got me curious about who those people were, and I found out, they were presenting much more reasonable arguments.

I am in general sceptical of explaining everything with "the nature of the internet" and "filter bubbles". While that undoubtedly has clear and real effects, I still subscribe to those effects panning out in the way we witness, because of how more broadly, capitalism has decayed further and further into crisis mode ever since, and more clearly divorced from its marriage with parliamentarian, liberal democracy even in western nations, and the ownership of media, both social and traditional, has consolidated more and more into the hands of a few people, in addition to the profit incentive shaping the way information is packaged and communicated. Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, the genocide in Rwanda, the mass killing of communists in Indonesia, none of those needed the internet to happen - and I find it suspicious how we look for the fault for everything now in "common people just being monsters when left to their own devices in an unregulated space", when that space is heavily regulated both abstractly by the profit motive and addictive engagement, and even special interests of individual capitalists nowadays.

Sry, went a bit on a rant there, not implying that was what you were arguing, that's more me arguing against something just brought up in general quite often nowadays, which I think focuses in on one part of reality (again: it has an effect, not disputing that), in order to explain away other parts of the dynamic at play.

[–] LesserAbe@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

I think arguing in the forums of my favorite band in high school (about topics completely unrelated to music) have made my written communication as an adult pretty good

[–] utopiah@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

I should write a Tridactyl script to use that as warning... it goes like this

document.querySelector("textarea").style.backgroundImage = "linear-gradient(to right, rgba(255,255,255, 0.7) 0 100%), url(https://programming.dev/pictrs/image/e7e7aeb4-ae1d-426b-bf45-02a4f3060bd6.jpeg?format=webp)"

It's hard to read but a good reminder maybe it's not worth it! :D

[–] bitcrafter@programming.dev 17 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] njm1314@lemmy.world 22 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yet another engagement title from you I see.

[–] match@pawb.social 2 points 3 days ago

they have to put something

[–] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 9 points 3 days ago

I feel like you must have said something dumb online, and gotten absolutely dogpiled for it, to draw this comic.

[–] JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The meaning? It seems fairly self evident, a critique of internet arguments, not far from that cliche of 'touching grass'

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This is clearly a statement about depression and how we act out when unhappy, anyone could see this!

[–] DarkCloud@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

Talking is shared thinking.

[–] Klear@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

He looks like a guy in a reptile suit in panel 2.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Sounds like many of the people on my blocklist.

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

It means internet arguing is stupid and pointless and will do the exact opposite of making you feel satisfied or accomplished.

Nobody has ever had their opinions and beliefs changed from arguing on the internet, or if they have, they will never talk about it, so there's no results you can track from it, no outcome, no closure. Arguing on the internet means getting heated for no reason and with no payoff.

Most of the people who say the stupidest shit are just children anyway, but for some reason we've made it socially acceptable to argue with, and take the opinions of literal CHILDREN as seriously as if it's people writing policy.

[–] SinAdjetivos@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Those children grow up to be the ones writing policy. They are people too, don't forget that you were also once a child.

The "stupidest shit" that is said is often due to them being isolated and in a social bubble where those beliefs are the norm. Those "Internet arguments" may be the only exposure to ideas outside and social pushback outside said bubble.

Lack of evidence of outcome is not evidence of outcome.

If you're getting heated you're doing it wrong.

The payoff isn't to convince the other person one way or another, it's to provide others reading the discussion alternative viewpoints. In this case pushing back against the idea that children's thoughts, feelings and questions should be ignored.