this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2025
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[–] bluelander@lemmy.ml 38 points 2 days ago (1 children)

My fix has always been: that's fine! They go off on their own adventures. Now please roll a character that's going to play the game we're running here tonight.

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 22 points 2 days ago (6 children)

I just don't DM for people like that anymore.

Oh god I might when my kids and their friends are older though. This is why you gotta raise em right.

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 24 points 2 days ago (5 children)

I started running games for my wife and her niblings, and the oldest boy is getting into that "I'm such a rebel" phase where they think they're bad ass for taking slightly longer to do a chore than needed and say "no" the first time you ask them to do something.

He thought it was hilarious to have a character that refused to join the rest of the group, so I said "okay, you can stay at the inn if you want" and then proceeded to intentionally ignore anything he was saying or doing, leaving him out of rolls, and never addressing him.

He's 12 and started literally crying to his mother about how we're all being mean to him. Apparently "he had the opportunity to participate and chose not to" wasn't a good enough response to his mother. I stand by my choice. Although my wife managed to convince me to let him "rejoin" at the next town/session.

He doesn't pull that shit anymore though, when he's playing he's playing or he gets shut out again.

Genuine question to anyone reading: does that make me a bad DM? If so, suggestions on how to handle it?

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Tell him "look, this game isn't about being a Total Badass By Yourself. It's about working with your team and overcoming challenges you couldn't otherwise. If you wanna be a Total Badass By Yourself, there are games you can play. But if you wanna play this, you're gonna have to work with me here. Because my time and effort is valuable, and I want to have fun just like you do.

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[–] ech@lemm.ee 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The fact your seeking feedback suggests no, but it was certainly a bad move, both as a DM and as an uncle. Punishing anyone, though especially children, without explaining why is mean. You have a responsibility to clearly communicate problems with others as an authority figure at the table and in their life. I don't necessarily think the punishment was unreasonable, but if it's not explained to them, it just comes across as arbitrary and vindictive.

Imo, the best way to handle issues like that is to set the rules and consequences, making them clear to everyone, and to be consistent in their application. Letting people off or being vindictive will just exacerbate things.

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 7 points 2 days ago

I told him the game focuses on the group and if he's not part of the group then he won't be playing, and since that first game he has participated, with few issues popping up.

I probably could have been clearer before we even got to the table that if you aren't playing with the group then you aren't playing, rather than just expect them to stick with a group on their first game.

[–] sirblastalot@ttrpg.network 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I think that was the right action, but you could have explained better. Instead of just "Ok, you stay at the tavern" something like "Ok, you can stay at the tavern if you really want to, but you do understand that will mean you're sitting here bored all afternoon while the rest of us play, right?"

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

I told him multiple times that if he was going to try and do his own thing, he won't be participating with the group, and the group is the entire focus of the game.

I suppose I could have made it more explicit that he could join the group or he could leave the game.

I should add that that was many games ago, and he has since begun participating, although he often tries to go his own way and threatens to leave the group constantly, but so far he hasn't actually tried leaving the group unless it was agreed upon for strategy reasons. (they split up inside a crypt in the most horror movie fashion possible)

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[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I recently tried to DM for my son and his friends. One of his friends insisted he wanted to be a DM. I tried to gently encourage him to allow me to DM for them, and he would have much more fun as a player. Nope, he insisted, and like a good DM, I let him discover for himself why he was wrong. It was fun to be a player character, and they all learned a lot about running a game, so wins all around.

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There's a few ways I have approached this as a GM. I'll go from least to most effective (and, I feel, mature).

The first is to put a shared enemy in front of the party, so that even if the characters do split up, they're working towards the same goal. The character who has "no reason" to trust the party also has reason to recognize the effectiveness of sticking with allies in a world full of enemies. If the player wants them to go off on their own, fine, but as GM, the game stays with the party - oh, and have the player who left roll on a random injury table because they were outnumbered.

Second is to invoke the "Wolverine Approach". Wolverine in Marvel Comics always goes on and on about not being a team player, being a bad person, being a loner, etc. - and he certainly has had his fair share of solo adventures. At the same time, there was at least one month where nearly every major Marvel title had Wolverine in it - Avengers, West Coast Avengers, X-Men, the Defenders, Spider-Man, Marvel Team-Up, Alpha Flight, etc.. And because it was in the era where She-Hulk was part of the F4, he had a cameo there because of the WCA. Wolverine might claim to not be a team player, and he might be a pain in the rear end, but he's always there if there's a villain to be thwarted or a fight to be had. You have a right to have your character complain. Just stick in or near the party. I don't care if you sleep in a different hotel or a separate camp. Be there in the important scenes.

Third, "Take it or leave it". I'm not ashamed of myself for this one - I have told people, this is the game we're playing. if you want to play this game, I want to have you. If you don't want to play what we're playing under the terms we're all in agreement on, there's the door, don't let it hit you on the way out. It's effective, but I don't think it's the most mature method in my arsenal because of the all-or-nothing nature.

Fourth is an open and frank discussion. Explain that the concept of the game is cooperative. Make sure you get buyin from everyone, not just the loner. Express the expectation I have of both players and characters for the game in play. Paranoia, for instance, has a very different set of expectations and goals than Shadowrun or Spirit of the Century / Dresden / Fate. I have GMed for a loner character in a Fate game who never showed up with the other players, but because the system is so narratively driven, they were helpful by setting up Aspects with free tags because the character could realistically be "doing his own thing" and still contribute. So I've learned to be open and clear with my goals and intentions. I don't care if your character is going to be a pain - I care whether or not you as a player will contribute positively to everyone's experience in a fair way.

The more we are clear about goals and intentions, and the more we can apply nuance and understanding to the situation, the better our games will be.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago

make checks until you fail. take 40d8 damage from a mysterious source. no one's around you to help unfortunately because you were dumb enough to separate from the party.

now make a better character or go home, your choice.

[–] Crankenstein@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago (8 children)

Biggest pet peeve with players. This is why, during session 0, I make players pre-establish a reason that they not only go along with the party and the planned campaign but also a reason why they trust at least two other characters.

[–] Dalvoron@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 day ago

Best advice. Players start the game knowing how and why they are going to stick together.

I'm also inclined to put my thumb on the scale a little as DM and give the players a loose connection that they can build on and incorporate into their characters while building. BG3 did it really well - everyone has a tadpole in their head, y'all gonna be mindflayers if you leave the group.

I recently had players all start as fresh recruits in an organisation - they got to decide the organisation - where the higher-ups put them together. Previously I did a one shot at level 5 where players already had an adventuring group together 20 years before and were called back together for one last mission.

[–] InputZero@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago

I've made it a hard rule, "Your characters are at least familiar with each other. They're not total strangers." It just makes everything so much easier.

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[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 12 points 2 days ago

Your character purchased and ate bad fish the night before, and you have uncontrollable gas, which quickly turns to greasy, putrid diarrhea. As the pub bouncer tosses you out the door for smelling like raw sewage, a micrometeorite hits you in the eye and lodges itself into your brain, disrupting your medula. As you lay there struggling to breate, you shake yourself awake. It would seem you fell asleep at the table and had an awful dream.

Sorry, what were you saying about not wanting to stick around?

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 15 points 2 days ago

Lots of other good points already made, but I'll add my own two cents.

When I run a game, I always require players to make characters together. No "go off and make a character in isolation". That's just a recipe for disaster. You can have some ideas already in mind, but nothing is canon until the whole group agrees.

Second, everyone needs to have buy-in to whatever the hook is. If the scenario is "you're starting a courier business at the edge of civilization", there are lots of good options. Guy on the run from the law. Lady studying local wild life. Intelligent, local, wildlife. Don't play "guy who doesn't want to be here and is a total killjoy"

Third, it's better when characters have connections to each other. You can play the "we just met and we're forming a relationship!" arc, but like "what if we play ourselves in a fantasy world??" it has been done.

Honestly, everyone should read Fate's "Phase Trio" https://fate-srd.com/fate-core/phase-trio and the rest of character creation.

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 19 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I'm a big fan of "you all wake up in loincloths sitting in a wagon, hands bound" and as long as someone at the table can roll higher than a 1, they can break free.

Or something attacks them while they're all in a tavern

Basically I'm a fan of "you could ignore having your shit kicked in, but will you?" since so many players would stop at nothing.

Fallout NV had the right idea. "Where's that little fucker who shot me in the head?!"

[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 18 points 2 days ago

Hey, you. You’re finally awake. You were trying to cross the border, right?

[–] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Ngl, this has never been a problem for multiple sessions for me. As a player or DM.

As a player, I show up willing to play characters that will work with a group, even if they don't trust them. Trust isn't necessary to work together.

As a DM I remind all players of that fact before they roll one up. If they don't have an idea on how their character would manage that, I'll give them ideas.

Yeah, you'll run into players that just don't get that not every character has to have the same motivation to work with others, or just refuse to play different characters (instead, they try to play the same character with different names). But those are rare. And, so far, I've yet to run into a player that wouldn't take the "look, you don't have to keep playing with us, but give it a try my way and see how it goes, yeah?" talk and give it a fair try.

I've also never had a player quit because of the game not being engaging and fun.

[–] Archpawn@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

(instead, they try to play the same character with different names).

I'm imagining every session they play a new character who meets the party and decides not to join them.

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[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 15 points 2 days ago (4 children)

I learned as a GM to set expectations.

"I don't want to have to fight and force you in to making this game work, because even though I'm GMing, I'd like to enjoy myself too. You need to create a character that will want to stick around with the rest of the group. You don't have to all get on, or have deep attachments, you just need a character that I won't have to railroad"

[–] Skua@kbin.earth 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I have found it productive to make part of the character creation prompt a motivation for the main plot. Like tell me your class and backstory and all that, and then also tell me why you want to be on this adventure

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[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Alone and vulnerable, you are murdered by thieves. Make a new guy for the next game.

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[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 days ago

If the person playing is hellbent on being a lone wolf, they shouldn't have entered the game. Roleplaying a character who has trust issues but is willing to give the party a chance to convince them they're trustworthy is very reasonable, though - realistic, even.

[–] PunnySN@piefed.social 12 points 2 days ago

Gotta build those connections and relationships into the party during session zero. I like to model mine after the game fiasco where players are linked by relationships, locations, objects or needs. For DnD I think the dragon slayer classic playset works best, you can find it under the downloads section

I actually made this work in a recent cheesy short campaign. My character was an intelligent monkey, although he was still an animal and couldn't speak. After meeting the party, he decided to go do his own thing, which just so happened to be the same thing as the rest of the party.

It worked out really well. The rest of the party could navigate social challenges without having to explain the monkey, I could sneak around and grab MacGuffins without having to accommodate huge humans who were terrible at climbing.

I doubt it works well for longer or more serious games, but it matched the hectic nature of the campaign and led to some hilarious moments.

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (20 children)

I have been a Dungeon Master for over 25 years. I am also a longtime anarchist, and many of my regular players are not.

I have three rules if im going to DM: 1) I pick the game system. Sorry, non-negotiable. I'll play 5e (if I have to) but I won't run it. Luckily, I also don't have to run the same game my players are playing. Yall can use Worlds Without Number, Into The Odd, the Rules Cyclopedia, Mork Borg... what goes on on my end is my own thing (and involves plenty of the RC) 2) Party resources are communal. However you wanna work that out is up to you, but if you steal from The Party, The Gods will Curse You. And 3) You have to be willing to work in a group. This isn't Skyrim, its a party game. The whole point is social problem solving. If you're not up for that, its cool, I won't make you talk or anything - but you gotta be a part of the team. Part of that is on me to make the initial hook good enough, but part of it is on you not to run a counterproductive pain in my ass.

I almost never have any problems if I do my job right and make all this clear and understood off the bat.

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