The only recommendation I can provide is a Google Pixel device with GrapheneOS. Graphene is only designed to work on Pixels because they are (allegedly) the most secure mobile phone hardware-wise. Once you flash Graphene, it's up to you to install any apps beyond the basic browser (Vanadium), gallery, camera, caller, SMS, PDF viewer, contacts, file manager, and security/system apps. No Google involved without your permission, though you will have to install Google services, available via a Graphene mirror and sandboxed for privacy, IF you want to install an eSIM after flashing Graphene. If you're interested in further information, please let me know. I use it, love it, and am happy to provide any information you may need to decide if it's a good fit for you or not.
Privacy
A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
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- Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn't great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
- Don't promote proprietary software
- Try to keep things on topic
- If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
- Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
- Be nice :)
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much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
What is the root scene on Graphene? I know the dev is pretty against it but I like having root access after being used to it. Is it possible to easily root it without any integrity issues later on?
It's not supported. According to the devs rooting defeats the purpose of Graphene OS.
It looks like the verified boot security feature of Graphene effectively prevents rooting the OS. I understand wanting root access, it does provide some nice features, but I don't have any need for it. I don't have any bloatware embedded to remove, and I don't need to mod any system apps, so I haven't looked into it much. I know the dev says it isn't planned because it massively increases attack surface, which I personally agree with, but it would be nice to have the option via a separate version of the OS or something. If you need root access, I would suggest looking into LineageOS. It's similar in privacy to Graphene and last I knew could be rooted. Graphene is very focused on security as well as privacy, and for me is a best of both worlds, but if you want to modify the system for various power-user type features, it might not be for you.
Yeah I'm currently running LineageOS. I wanted root mainly for adblock (modifying /etc/hosts) and AppOps. Does Graphene have those features built in?
Check out DivestOS. It's a fork of lineage with a focus on better security and privacy. Not restrictive like Graphene. Rootable via magisk.
So far I'm liking it. Great battery life (lowest I've ever seen) even on my 5 year old phone.
No, it doesn't. I use 95% FOSS software, so anything that might have ads just gets denied network permission entirely. As for AppOps, I just looked it up, and that would be something I'd like to see developed as a feature of Graphene. It seems like a genuinely useful, and at the very least privacy-protecting, app. I don't use copy/paste via keyboard, and despite it not having network permissions, I'd still deny it clipboard access simply because it doesn't need it.
You can root on GrapheneOS. You do it exactly the same way you'd do it for the stock Google ROM:
- Have an unlocked bootloader. Yes, this means that it """defeats the purpose of GrapheneOS""", if the purpose of GrapheneOS isn't for you to avoid Google's privacy nightmare. I use GrapheneOS for privacy moreso than security, and not being able to block ads properly is irritating.
- Install the Magisk app.
- Extract the
boot.imgfrom the GrapheneOS image and patch within Magisk. - Flash the patched boot image in the bootloader.
The main annoyance with this is that you'll have to do that dance every month when a security patch gets released, but for me, it's better than vomiting from exposure to ads on mobile.
Get a used pixel for $100. Factory reset on arrival, and install Graphene OS. Do not install gapps.
+1 for pixel. I just ordered a 7a for grapheneos.
everyone's recommending Pixel. That's good to know.
ok but we're all here because we're interested in privacy, so please tell me what does Google Pixel have anything to do with privacy??
"Google" & "Privacy" are contradictions.
They use Graphene. That's the point. Pixels are unfortunately the only supported devices. That's why I won't use Graphene as I would never support google. A pity, many do
People or rather I didn't buy pixel as its more privacy friendly but its the only one available here that let's me install another ROM on day 1 without voiding warranty. And grapheneos being one of the best privacy focused ROM only available for pixel and that pretty much every ROM is available on pixel is another reason. I was basically forced into buying a google product as everyone else void warranty on unlocking boot loader or they don't have much of a custom ROM scene.
Google Pixel with GrapheneOS
For best privacy AND security, Pixel 8 or 8 Pro with GrapheneOS. Nothing else compares. The Pixel 8 series are also the first that support hardware memory tagging, basically making them immune against 70% of all exploits.
Another vote for fairphone here, but for reasons others failed to mention: replaceable battery, so even after 2 years, it can feel like new and keep most of its value (to resell if wanted); 5 years of updates + warranty; support for after market roms. Then there's also the fair ethics part of it
No bloat? Stay away from Samsung then.
Maybe a fair phone? https://shop.fairphone.com/fairphone-5
Short summary:
- no bloatware
- 5y waranty
- easily Repairable
- Planned to receive 5 android major version upgrades
Addition:
- several unsolved (hardware) issues in the past
- security patches are far too late
- 8 years support
- Using the promoted /e/ results in loss of support (you habe to flash back FairphoneOS). Maybe this has changed as they are sellig phones with preinstalled /e/ by themselves
- Screws in the FP4 where very low in quality
- above-average batterie drain
I have the fp5 and flashed e/os myself. Im very happy with it. You need to flash it back when you want to sent it in (they have the instructions on there own page). Build Quality is nice. Repairs are simple. The price for spareparts is reasonable. And they really try to make a difference here and that is why i support them. Are they perfect? No? But who is? And you need to start from somewhere i think.
- no bloatware
Does it come without GApps? Most people don't need half of those
Google Pixel with GrapheneOS.
I keep seeing this idea everywhere. Buy a Google phone and install another OS.
It is completely absurd to fund the exact adversaries you are running away from, while consuming, without contributing a dime, merely a piece of free software. (It is only a small piece of freedom because none of the hardware is free, and some binary blobs [incl. potential backdoors] will still be present in the alternative OS no matter which one it is.)
This is unsustainable, terrible, damaging advice. Stop giving it.
I have a Xperia 1.
It has a flagship SoC, but it also has a SD card slot, a headphone jack, no notch or cutout, front firing stereo speakers and a nice blocky look without a massive camera bump.
The downside is software support can be a bit spotty and the cameras are made for manual use, as opposed to being AI-driven point-and-shoot things. That last one could be a positive depending on your preference, though.
But overall? I'm very satisfied, and I went there specifically because I was tired of the ongoing Apple-ification of Samsung in the first place. You may want to consider coming to the dark side and incentivizing Sony to keep making a phone with a feature set, instead of copy-pasting Apple's or Samsung's playbook.
Lots of good advice here, but many might be too extreme. I find such all-or-nothing approach intimidating for people who just started to think about improving their privacy situation.
Let's see... you are angry about bloatware. It can come from two sources - mobile service carrier and phone manufacturer. How to get rid of it?
- Buy only "unlocked" phones. Then the carrier will not be able to push anything to your phone. You will also be free to change the carrier as you wish.
- Buy phones from manufacturers that don't install too much bloatware. Google Pixel has only Google apps, Motorola also is almost vanilla Google. Fairphone is more exotic, but an interesting option. iPhone is OK too if you want Apple ecosystem, but customization is not a thing there.
Now, we are in a privacy focused community and I saw your later comments about Google being an opposite of privacy. I would argue that vanilla Pixel is much better than bloated and locked Samsung already. I see you get recommendations to replace the OS that your new phone might run, and these are valid, but come with significant downsides. There are other ways to improve your privacy stance by changing the way how you use your phone without changing what phone or what OS you run on it.
Warning about bringing an unlocked phone to Verizon (even if it's a current flagship Apple/Samsung/Google device): 50/50 they'll lock you out of WiFi calling/HD voice, etc. Because they're dicks.
A Google Pixel running GrapheneOS is your best option. Graphene doesn't have any Google services by default, no bloatware at all, maximum privacy and security. It's super easy to install, you can check out this video guide or just read their official documentation.
Another video about GrapheneOS that I totally recommend: https://youtube.com/watch?v=yTeAFoQnQPo
I recommend this after the install: https://youtube.com/watch?v=BymH90zFe30
Google Pixel. I dont know I want to keep my 4a actually as its small, nice and has a headphone jack.
Personally waiting for the shiftphone 8. Fairphone 5 is also a possibility if you value ethics. These should be less bloated than most I believe. The pixel is nicer than most mainstream phones. As it just comes with the vendor who made Android and their proprietary bs instead of yet another layer. The best way to eliminate bloat is a custom rom. Pixel supports GrapheneOS and I believe all of them will be supported by CalyxOS. (They made a build for the newest released shiftphone)
Do be careful, your choices are very limited. All the carriers in the US, except TMobile today, have a whitelist of devices. Even if you make your own phone or buy an awesome phone from out of market, it won't work.
Technically, there is no reason it won't work. But the carriers block it from registering on the network unless roaming. Our non-American devices have been kicked off every network now except TMobile.
So your choice is really just the small list of devices they choose to support and 75% are the same phone. Samsung whatever with some various sized screen and various sized storage. Or Apple iWhatever.
They make your life hell with a non-standard carrier phone. And yes I've been buying out of region phones for 20 years now, even back with Windows Mobile and Palm devices with 2G text based web. Every year it gets harder and harder.