this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2023
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Any one here has any experience with teaching 8 to 12 years old kids Linux?

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[–] maxprime@lemmy.ml 186 points 11 months ago (24 children)

Teacher here.

My favourite “lesson” I ever gave was in a grade 9 technology class. It was a pretty small class, about 10 kids. I split them up into two teams and made a competition. They chose their own teams — it ended up being boys vs girls. I never would have made it that way on my own but that’s how it worked out.

The school had a bunch of old, decommissioned PCs that were headed to the junk yard. I sorted through all of them to get two exact sets of working parts for the competition.

The goal of the competition was to recover a jpeg from one of the hard drives. Each team had a computer with the ram removed and two hard drives. One was blank and the other had the jpeg on it. They also had a Linux Mint installer on a usb stick.

I don’t remember exactly how I had set it up but it was points based, something about getting to different stages first. Like 5 points to be the team that turns the computer on first. One of the big ones was that they got an extra 10 points if they did the whole thing without a mouse.

I told the other classes about the competition and asked some other teachers if it would be okay for them to watch and cheer on. It ended up being the nerdiest and most exciting class ever. Students were literally cheering each team through a Linux install. One team got stuck and had to pull out the mouse. There was booing. It was so epic.

The girls won, being the first to recover the jpeg and they did it all without a mouse. It was so awesome. The jpeg was the meme about how would a dog wear pants.

It was about 5 years ago, my first year teaching. I really miss those days. I only teach math now, and while I like that, there was something magical about showing kids how fun computers can be.

[–] nayminlwin@lemmy.ml 28 points 11 months ago

Damn, we need more ICT teachers like you.

[–] 0x4E4F@infosec.pub 19 points 11 months ago

Wow, just WOW 👏👏👏.

I wish there were more teachers like you in schools. Inspired people, in general... that's what's lacking in society nowadays 😔.

[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 11 months ago
[–] luigirenna@infosec.exchange 5 points 11 months ago

@maxprime my technology teacher in middle school did something similar with me and a bunch of other kids in 1995 or so. That's how I fixed my first pc, and eventually started a career in IT. There was no team competition, but he basicallt said "these are some broken computers, if you can fix them you can have a lab to play Doom or whatever you want. He helped us setting up the IPX network tbf, but we had to check what dimm banks were working, which not, same with hdd and processors, and put togheter everything and install Windows 3.11

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[–] mojo@lemm.ee 30 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Give a kid the arch install wiki and a computer with the USB iso ready to go. Tell them they aren't allowed food until they install it and run neofetch.

[–] yianiris@kafeneio.social 13 points 11 months ago

Any kid? Do I have to prove age? I'll install for a 1kg of basmati, or 3kg of potatos, 2kg of beans, 5kg of onions, or anything similar.

@mojo @nayminlwin

[–] Bomal@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Well great but it's probably a bit overkill to restrain food, you should consider adapting the food accordingly

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[–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 24 points 11 months ago (5 children)

The only advice I have is to try to make it interesting for them and not just additional practical information they have to memorize. You don't want to be the weird dad that insists on using stuff nobody else does, you have to show them what's cool about it, and also accept maybe they'll just stick with Windows for now.

I also think the main takeaway they should have out of it is that there's many ways of doing the same thing and none is "the correct and only way". They should learn to think critically, navigate unfamiliar user interfaces, learn some more general concepts and connect the dots on how things work, and that computers are logical machines, they don't just do random things because they're weird. Teach them the value of being able to dig into how it works even if it doesn't necessarily benefit them immediately.

Maybe set up a computer or VM with all sorts of WMs and DEs with the express permission to wreck it if they want, or a VM they can set up (even better if they learn they can make their own VMs as well!). Probably have some games on there as well. Maybe tour some old operating systems for the historical context of how we got where we are today. Show them how you can make the computers do things via a terminal and it does the same thing as in the GUI. Show different GUIs, different file managers, different text/document editors, maybe different DE's, maybe even tiling vs floating. What is a file, how are ways you can organize them, how you can move them around, how some programs can open other program's files.

Teach them the computer works for them not the other way around. They can make the computer do literally anything they want if they wish so. But it's okay to use other people's stuff too.

[–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 11 points 11 months ago

For me what planted the Linux seed is when I tried Mandrake Linux when I was 9-10ish. I didn't end up sticking with it for all that long, but I absolutely loved trying out all those DEs. I had downloaded the full fat 5 CD version and checked almost everything during setup, so it came jam packed with all sorts of random software to try out. The games were nice, played the shit out of Frozen Bubble. I really liked Konqueror too, coming from Internet Explorer. It was pretty snappy overall. And there's virtual desktops for more space! People were really helpful on IRC, even though I was asking about installing my Windows drivers in Wine. Unfortunately I kinda wanted games and my friends were getting annoyed we couldn't play games on my computer.

It stuck with me however, so later on when some of my online friends were trying it out, I wanted to try it out again too. I wasn't much into games anymore, had started coding a little bit. So on my computer went Kubuntu 7.10, and I'm still on Linux to this day.

But that seed is what taught me there's more. I didn't hate Windows, I wasn't looking to replace it. I hadn't fallen in love with FOSS yet. It was cool and different and fun. It wasn't as sterile and as... grey as Windows 98. You could pop up some googly eyes that followed your mouse, because you could. There were all those weird DEs with all sorts of bars and features.

[–] 0x4E4F@infosec.pub 7 points 11 months ago

You don't want to be the weird dad that insists on using stuff nobody else does, you have to show them what's cool about it, and also accept maybe they'll just stick with Windows for now.

This 👆. Be weird, but be cool at the same time. None of the other dads can do this, but yours can 🦸 ☺️... and, he can teach you how to do a lot more cool stuff as well 😉.

[–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 5 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Maybe a Steam Deck if they're into gaming, boy do people love to tinker with their Decks.

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[–] TimeSquirrel@kbin.social 22 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

With my kid, he just gets on Steam and starts doing his thing with his friends like everybody else as if he was on Windows. It makes no difference to him. I figure I'd let him learn the same way I learned computers, by just standing back and letting him poke and prod around and giving assistance and guidance when necessary. He can't break anything important.

[–] DuffmanOfTheCosmos@beehaw.org 14 points 11 months ago

I tried this with my son, who is now 17 and not nearly as computer literate as I was by his age, let alone Linux literate at all. I think it's a generational thing, as a kid growing up in the 90s I HAD to learn how to administer our PC at a higher level to do the things I wanted to do. Now with easy apps and tablets and auto-installation of all-the-things you just don't need to be an advanced user to do what you want to do. This is just my experience, YEMV

[–] Granixo@feddit.cl 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

SuperTux, Tux Math, Tux Paint and SuperTuxKart.

Easiest way to get kids involved with Linux.

[–] nayminlwin@lemmy.ml 8 points 11 months ago

I did get him into TuxPaint and GCompris. He liked playing around in GCompris.

The problem is I have to compete with youtube and roblox... So I have to lock these out for him to use anything else.

[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 15 points 11 months ago

My kids have always been using Linux because that's what I use on my gaming PC. When it was time for my eldest to get his own computer I tried to educate him on the differences between Linux and Windows (admittedly with my bias) and he chose Linux. I feel like wobbly windows played a big part in that.

He moans about some unsupported multiplayer games now and then and I have told him that we have a spare SSD he may use to install Windows. But so far his suffering wasn't big enough to help me step him through that process.

[–] squaresinger@feddit.de 13 points 11 months ago

Don't start with the tinkering aspect first.

Ask yourself, why does your kid use Windows?

Probably to play games, access the internet and maybe do their homework. Most probably, they don't use Windows because they specifically enjoy working with Windows, but because it easily lets them do whatever they actually want to do on a PC.

Spending 5h on fixing some weird incompatibility between the Nvidia GPU, your DE and Proton might be fun for some, but it's most probably not what your kid wants to do when they could be gaming or doing whatever they actually want to do. Problems like that can scare them off quickly.

So first setup the PC so that everything they usually do on Windows works without issues.

The next question is, why would your kid want to run Linux instead of Windows?

The usual advantages (FOSS, free to use, better for developers) don't really matter to most kids. The only things I can think of right now are:

  • Runs on PCs that aren't Win11 compatible
  • Some games like Minecraft run faster (but some games also run slower)

With the setup completed and advantages thought of, you can let the kid use Linux quite similarly to Windows. When the kid wants new software or has an issue, work together with them to get everything running. First do everything and let them watch, later let them do more and more of the process.

That's basically it.

[–] 30p87@feddit.de 12 points 11 months ago

My father was lucky, I wanted a minecraft server so bad that I accepted to learn how to handle an Ubuntu Server, with ~10 years.
Then I kinda had my edgy hacking phase with 12, and installed Kali as dual boot.
As my Windows install got older, dirtier and buggier, I decided to just f it and installed Pop over everything.

So, get them to be interested in having/doing something requiring Linux, then show them the wonders of the Linux desktop, preferably not Kali, but something more user friendly, and finally wait till they want to reinstall for whatever reason, like a new PC (with AMD or Intel GPU).

[–] BetaDoggo_@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Just introducing them to it is probably enough. Show them different desktop environments and applications to get them used to the idea of diverse interfaces and workflows. Just knowing that alternatives exist could help them break out of the Windows monoculture later. Enable all of the cool window effects.

[–] nottheengineer@feddit.de 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

KDEs wobbly windows will convert almost any child to linux.

[–] Strit@lemmy.linuxuserspace.show 7 points 11 months ago

Or the return of The Cube.

[–] tourist@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

When I was 12 I got "tricked" into installing Linux Mint from a USB drive because another kid told me it had Garageband on it.

Like that meme where you give someone a bunch of adderall and a pickaxe and tell them there's gold under a location you need excavated.

Perhaps you could explore adjacent strategies?

[–] nayminlwin@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

May be not a bad idea.

His screen time is currently limited and he's been asking me to remove the limit. Guess I can let him dual boot into Mint without any screen time limit so that he can play around.

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[–] CaptainJack42@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

A friend of mine got his son to use Linux by just not providing an alternative, he installed Debian edu (don't know if that's the name, but basically a Debian spin for kids with parental restrictions and stuff) on an old laptop for him and that's what he used. Once he got his own PC it was over though since he wanted to play Fortnite so bad that he bought windows for that. He still dual boots Fedora, but I don't think he has used it since the windows partition is there.

I think the thing is you can't really get kids (or people in general for that matter) into Linux the way you are probably into it and interested in it. At least not if they're not already interested in it on their own. They will learn how to use it sure, but not the way we're used to using Linux, understanding the intricacies of the system, keeping the system safe,... They'll probably find a way to do what they already do on windows and ignore that the OS is different.

[–] 0x4E4F@infosec.pub 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

IMO, his aproach was too strict, that's why it failed and just caused repulsion towards Linux. There are other ways you can "make" children like things.

[–] CaptainJack42@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don't think this was too strict, maybe I made it sound that way, but it was not like he forbid him using windows, it was just that he's using Linux, his son got his old laptop that was running Linux and they didn't have a windows license, so his son was running Linux as well. He's also doing fine on Linux and doesn't dislike it or anything, the only "problem" was that he wanted to play Fortnite which does not work on Linux. He's also getting along fine with Linux, especially on fedora where he doesn't need the Terminal.

What I wanted to say with that comment is that you can't make your kids to learn and use Linux like most of us probably do. For most people an operating system is still just some black magic on their computer that makes the browser or their games run, they don't care how it works or if it is secure or using the latest software. Most people just don't know and don't care what an OS even is and the same thing goes for kids imo

[–] 0x4E4F@infosec.pub 4 points 11 months ago

Oh, that's different then... I thought his dad was like "run Debian, or you're grounded", lol 😂.

I agree on the last part, that is most definitely true. You can try, but you can't force it 🤷. After all, his/hers gifts may lay in another field, not tech 😉.

[–] drwankingstein@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I had good luck walking my nephew through installing and setting up arch. Great introduction into linux, he was 13 but thats close enough to the given range

[–] sviper@programming.dev 9 points 11 months ago

Got my little brother (12) to run Minecraft on Linux mint,

[–] tigaente@feddit.de 8 points 11 months ago

My kids only know Linux and have never seen Windows in their life before. They know their way around KDE just fine and get the stuff done they need. For gaming, it is steam with proton but mostly they game on consoles.

[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

For reference about 4 year olds: https://lifehacker.com/i-raised-my-kids-on-the-command-line-and-they-love-it-5974087

I think I read his blog back then. Telling about the progress his (then) very young son made. How he didn't install a graphical user interface at first but the kid loved 'sl' (the steam locomotive if you mistype 'ls'), and cowsay and so on. And they had a command-line chat to communicate (or just smash buttons).

[–] Astaroth@lemm.ee 6 points 11 months ago

As a kid I had windows 98 (and later xp) dual booted with debian and at some point some version of suse. This was ~20 years ago

Well I used it just fine and I knew a bout the mysterious "root" and "sudo" that my dad would use but I was just playing some games and maybe using the web browser.

Using the GUI I never learned Linux and it wasn't until a few years ago that I started using Linux again, and it was only because I wouldn't be able to continue using Windows 7 anymore.

 

So I don't have any experience with teaching Linux and especially not to kids, but I think kids are actually really good at learning stuff if they need too, so give them a PC and the tools to figure things out, if they want to use it they've got to learn, and don't give them other options where they don't have to learn anything.

[–] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz 6 points 11 months ago

My sons are in that age bracket and when they requested a laptops for themselves (older sister got one for school stuff) I "borrowed" decommissioned thinkpads from work, threw empty ssd's on them and gave computers to boys with linux mint installer on usb-stick. Younger one got it running in couple of hours without any help and is actively learning on how to use the thing, yesterday he told me how he had learned to open software using keyboard shortcuts and in general is interested about the tinkering aspect of things. Older one has a bit more pragmatic approach, he got the installation done as well but he's not interested about the computer itself as it's just a tool to listen to a music, look up for tutorials for his other interests and things like that.

Both cases are of course equally valid and I'm just happy that they are willing to learn things beyond just pushing the buttons. But I'm also (secretly) happy that my youngest shares my interests and he's been doing simple games with scratch and in general shows interest on how the computers, networking and other stuff actually works.

[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Awesome question. And good advice here. To add something: Don't just give them games. Hook up an old printer, install LibreOffice plus the openclipart images. Kids can make everything into a game. We used to play with my dad's old pc and imagined being private investigators and had our own little office. We printed out lots of silly stuff and took notes on the computer. There are a few 'learn typing on a keyboard' games, but back then I didn't have fun with them.

Maybe they like drawing, install TuxPaint, Krita. Or video editing or recording stuff, give them a webcam/phone and Kdenlive. Have them do a spoof on a movie or do their own Lego stop-motion film. Or they like to make music, install Audacity's sucessor, LMMS, a drum sequencer ...

And of course the whole kids-education metapackage if your distribution has one. So they can program little turtles and start coding with Python. You can do this at age 8, depending on the kids personality.

It works best if it's tied somehow into their lives. For example (occasionally) printing homework assignments, a stop-motion suite if they play a lot with Lego anyways...

Other than that, my boy scout education tells me to "look at the boy". Have them explore and see that they like. Assist and teach them how to operate the software they want to use. Help them once they get stuck or can't figure something out on their own. You will have to guide them and show how they can achieve the results they want, so they stay motivated.

Give them background knowledge and tell them the 'why's. Why something is the way it is. I'd say that is the point where we get to Linux. At age 10 or so, you don't necessarily care about an operating system. But you're curious and happy to learn why there are different ones and why they behave differently and the story behind that. And the thing that hooks you is the possibilities and usefulness for your life. So that's why I recommend installing lots of useful (to kids) software.

And maybe give them a chat / instant-messenger program. So they can contact you and ask questions.

As it is with teaching generally, it heavily depends on how you do it. Kids are very curious by default. In my experience: "Look at the boy" has served me well. Kids come in a wide variety. Don't teach them top-down but find a mix of letting them explore and roam, but also make sure to teach them the basics first. And guide them how to apply things to their life and find use-cases and the fun in it. If you pay attention to them, you can adjust your own behaviour.

[–] nayminlwin@lemmy.ml 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This is also how I got hooked to computers as a kid as well. The problem nowadays though is the internet and easy access to addictive internet services and games. Back then, you're stuck with what's on your PC and somehow have to make the most out of it.

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[–] cerement@slrpnk.net 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

there’s always the classic Sugar (the interface for the OLPC project)

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[–] poopsmith@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

My older brother got me into Ubuntu when I was around 12. He basically showed me the basics, like the terminal and a couple commands, then just told me to manpage or Google everything else.

Then I got Linux for the Wii and that really got me into the nitty gritties of Linux.

[–] ProperlyProperTea@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

How do you mean teach?

Just getting them to use it or teaching them terminal commands?

[–] nayminlwin@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

My son's windows focused ICT curriculum is pissing me off a bit. So I guess what I wanna teach is something similar to what a kid's ICT text book would teach, except that it will be for Linux.

Huh, may be I should look for kid friendly linux books first.

[–] ProperlyProperTea@lemmy.ml 11 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I don't know what your - and your kid's - situation is, but I worry pushing Linux onto someone would be counterproductive to getting them to like it.

I only use it because I genuinely like and appreciate it. I'd probably start by getting him interested in it. If he likes it enough then he'll try and learn more by himself.

I recently got an LLM running locally on an AMD GPU. This was only possible on Linux. Depending on your son, something like that could be a cool way to get him interested.

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[–] Bomal@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

You can go with a little escape game, just put vim in Fullscreen and reward the first child getting out.

[–] embed_me@programming.dev 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] nayminlwin@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago

We did some MIT's scratch together. I'll give it a try as well.

[–] elscallr@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Just sit them down with it. Kids can figure new technology out.

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