Why is he talking about Messi?
this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2023
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Cheers Geoff!
Disagree, Messi is GOATy, but he isn't the most influential player in the history of football. That is because there wasn't a way of playing in that role prior to Messi and post Messi. Maradona did set the same precedent for the small attackers many years before.
R9 is more influential than Messi for example. There was a prior to R9 era where strikers played in one manner. And after R9 era where strikers played differently.
Ibra for example is more influential for the tall/big striker position than Messi for his position. Before Ibra the big CF were asked to keep the ball, fight the defenders and be good at the box. After Ibra, these strikers are asked to do way more, drop deep, progress the ball, set the tempo, be more technically able and so on. Haaland is asked to hold himself to a higher standard because of standards Ibra set to that category for example.
Baresi is also more influential for the CB position, considering his height.
The use of the word "INFLUENTIAL" is used in a wrong manner.
It's hard to define what "influential" means in this context. I kind of agree that Messi didn't do anything not seen before, he just did a lot of already existing things, better than anyone and at an incredible speed, during 10+ years.
That said, one could argue that Messi was very influential in their rivals. All their rival coaches spent Messi's career trying to figure out how to stop him and there was a lot of evolution in tactics around that, with some like Simeone and Mourinho basically building their whole tactics around the premise of stopping Messi first, then everything else.
About your first paragraph, i 100% agree. I think he was extremely influential towards coaches on how to defend him. Even IF, i think that we have seen similar patterns before with Maradona or R9. Something that you mentioned.
But, THE MOST ONE?! Hard pass for me genuinely.
sadly for most r/soccer users all logic is lost when messi is mentioned
Yeah clearly you guys are in the intelligent group of this sub. Don’t look down on us too hard big brains.
First of all, not talking with absolutes makes you more big brain.
Dude, saying this as someone who loves him and think that he rightfully deserved the Golden Ball. But this statment is absolute bonkers. In every way you look at this, he wasn't THE MOST influential player.
it's crazy how every time a coach or figure praises him or ronaldo you have fanboys in the comment trying to downvote everyone into oblivion who make a good argument/case
In conclusion, Cheers Geoff
Nuh uh messi better
why is this so downvoted? He's the goat but absolutely not the most influential, they're two completely different things.
Influential how ? Convince people to try and ply like Messi ? No one can
How many coaches do you think spent days upon days coming up with different schemes to stop that man? How many coaches said they "know how to stop Messi" ?He's influence is in the way teams had to adjust to his skill set.
Go watch any star from 2008 downwards , if they got doubled teamed on defense then a commantor would mention it. By the time Messi peaked no one would mention Messi is getting triple teamed ,four players jailed, it just became the standard.
Go ask watch Jose Mourinho how he used to prepare for Messi. That's actual influence right there...
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Must be so easy being a sports journalist, just ask everyone about Messi/Ronaldo all the time, and get easy clicks.
Disculpame si te rompí la cola, así es el periodismo champagne
That's also a method for getting upvotes here - find a news story where they asked some schmuck about who the GOAT is, post it here and get like 3K upvotes guaranteed.
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I used to work for a sports media page and half of my job was just refreshing this subreddit to source quotes about Messi and Ronaldo to post on Twitter/Instagram. Was always the top-performing content by a mile.
I fucking knew it
it's hardly a secret at this point with how many articles reference reddit and twitter comments
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You're internet royalty mate.
used to work for a sports newspaper and same.
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I’ve finally downvoted the gaffa, what a cold cold day it is
He's decent this Messi lad, but he's not exactly Bill McCracken is he?
Messi is maybe the best player of all time, but not Top 10 in influence, not even in his own generation
South African politicians lined up to take pics with Messi when came to South Africa, dude has 2 of the top 3 instagram post of all time and has the second instagram followers without an extremely active poster. Did you see what happened when he moved to the MLS.
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Surprised the headline isn’t ‘Arteta SLAMS Ronald as uninfluential’
Messi and CR7 are the best, but Cruijff is the greatest. He’s one of the best and for sure the most influential.
If no one has done what Messi has done then has he influenced the game at all?
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I’m not disagreeing with him but have we seen anyone with the domination and longevity of CR7? Nope. During their golden years they were scoring an incredible amount of goals every season, not seen in history
Unpopular opinion, but I don't think he influenced much. Mostly because no one else can do what he did or can do. He's extremely unique. His play influenced other false 9s for a very short time until they all failed and moved on. His play as a RW isn't even attempted to be replicated. No one plays that position the way he does. New Messis pop up if they can dribble and are short. Until they turn 18 and it's apparent they are too far off track.
The obvious next big name is Ronaldo who I actually think was influential and the most influential player of the last 20 years. Wingers before Ronaldo were cross merchants. Like Giggs. Like Figo. Like Beckham. Then Ronaldo changed how wingers got involved and they were expected to score as well. Now wingers leave the crossing to the full backs.
But no one more influential than Cruyff.
Based
Don’t think that’s too uncontroversial - isn’t one of his nicknames “the alien”? It’s not that he does anything particularly unique - he just has incomparably exceptional close control, decision-making & execution. And has done for 20 years, at one of the best club sides ever allowing him to rack up insane numbers and records when he was developing and at his peak. If anything the argument would be that Guardiola is more influential from that Barca team considering his impact on German & English football and tactically how the game has had to change to adopt & counter ideas he’s introduced.
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I 100% believe messi to be the better player but imho the most influential player is probably CR7. Many young players and fans absolutely idolize him. And I don't even think they idolize him for footballing reasons.
They ideolise him for materialistic reasons. There are many people who project what they wanted to be on him. A pretty boy who plays great football, with great physique and who can get whatever girl on the planet.
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Whether or not you think Messi is better, Pele is far more influential. I would say Ronaldo is as well.
If you’re talking about who was the most influential figure then it surely has to be Pele right? Countries stopped fighting just to see him play. Cruyff too.
Influential does not mean the best football player.
GOAT but ...idk about influential... Let's just look at Haaland scoring a billion goals by being a world class poacher.. kind of like CR7 and being Haalands inspiration for how to move and get free space inside the box... How do you even get to what Messi does ? You look at Neymar skills and think ...I can try that... But how do you weave and wriggle in between 5 players with just body feints and make passes that splits the whole team in half ....every...single...match...
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I can see Messi being in the GOAT discussion, but influential per se? Not talking about inspiring, but creating a pattern, something to copy. CR7 or Neymar are better in that regard. Messi does Messi things.
Messi might be the GOAT, but I don't think he has influenced much because no one can replicate what he has been doing.
Ronaldo on the other hand has. I don't wanna get into detail, but definitely around work ethic, taking care of your body etc And then you can definitely look at his positioning, how he is getting rid of defenders etc and take notes
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Get Messi’s meat out your mouth Arteta
Wouldn't that make him the least influential?
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