this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2025
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...again. If it sounds familiar it's not just you. But they've been back on "undecided" shortly after. Let's hope this is the actual final decision.

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[–] Bogasse@lemmy.ml 3 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

About France ...

According to fightchatcontrol.eu a majority of our MEPs have expressed against the law : from far right to far left. ALL of the others are left as "unknown".

I think it's fair to assume that France is against this law but that our current political mess prevents an official or coordinated response.

I think this is a very important point : I see a lot of hate against our MEPs because fightchatcontrol.eu does not reflect their actual position on this issue.

I'd advise to at least switch France to "undecided" and add a bit of context 🤷

[–] PonyOfWar@pawb.social 3 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I believe the map is supposed to represent the position of the European commission (who would have voted on it first), not the parliament. Good to hear your MEPs would have likely been against it though.

[–] Bogasse@lemmy.ml 2 points 13 hours ago

Oh thanks, that was indeed not clear to me 👍🏼

[–] cyberwolfie@lemmy.ml 39 points 1 day ago (2 children)

The proponents of Chat Control will use every trick in the book and will not give up easily. We will keep fighting until this proposal is defeated once and for all, and the privacy of our digital lives is secure for everyone.”

How does this "once and for all" part work? Is there a clear, legal path towards preventing a similar proposal from being brought up again and again?

[–] PonyOfWar@pawb.social 20 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I guess ideally, we should put the right to encrypted communication into law or even into national constitutions. Unlikely to happen though.

[–] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Finland already has it in constitution, though it's not about encryption but just right to privacy on private messaging. It was originally created to protect snail mail communication

[–] wurstgulasch3000@feddit.org 3 points 1 day ago

Germany has a similar paragraph but that means nothing if they again decide that surveillance is necessary

[–] oftheair@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 day ago

Yes, get rid of hierarchies of power.

[–] pennomi@lemmy.world 211 points 2 days ago (6 children)

We have to protest this shit every fucking year and those asshole politicians just keep trying.

[–] Senseless@feddit.org 124 points 2 days ago (2 children)

We have to fight to get it denied every single time. They have to push it through only once. That's why they keep trying.

[–] Quittenbrot@feddit.org 46 points 2 days ago

..and we keep fighting.

[–] tal@olio.cafe 21 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

The Czechs got upset at EU-level efforts on gun control


Czechia has permissive firearm law


and passed an amendment to Czechia's constitution in 2021 guaranteeing certain firearm rights in Czechia. If the EU passed a directive that conflicted with it after that point without getting Czechs to approve an amendment to their constitution, Czechia would immediately begin violating the directive, which raises the stakes for people who wanted additional restrictions EU-wide.

One imagines that the same tactic could be used in other areas; if one or more EU members prohibited restrictions on end-to-end encryption or the like, it'd create a legal bar that would first need to be undone to create a restriction EU-wide.

That being said, if this sort of hardball tactic gets done too frequently, it'd make it really difficult to legislate at the EU level, because you'd have one state or another creating legal landmines all over.

And any other individual member could still impose their own state-level restrictions on end-to-end encryption in such a scenario


it'd only create an impediment to EU-wide restrictions.

[–] KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz 10 points 2 days ago (2 children)

AFAIK there are some EU countries with privacy laws that won't allow chat control

[–] neshura@bookwyr.me 2 points 1 day ago

Forget other EU countries and laws, the German constitution guarantees private postal and remote communications for every citizen. It's also why Germany has historically never (that I know of) voted in favor of this bullshit: it violates the Briefgeheimnis (article 10 of the German constitution)

If they hadn't rejected it the federal constitutional court in Karlsruhe would have sacked every single proposal on how to implement it, a process our current coalition is very familiar with from multiple attempts at trying to push preemptive collection of unencrypted data. They knew it wouldn't pass here anyway and likely just waited on an opportune time to profit off the inevitable denial. Although I'll give them that: some parts of the coalition were rather eager to meet the judges in Karlsruhe again anyway so it wasn't a 100% guaranteed rejection either.

[–] tal@olio.cafe 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I believe that the point of the Czechia situation was that it was a modification to the constitution; this will have a higher bar to change than would be the case for simply enacting an ordinary law. The idea was to entrench the status quo behind the bar for constitutional modification.

kagis

Looks like it's a 60% supermajority in each legislative house:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Czech_Republic#Amending_the_Constitution

With reference to the provision of the article 39, paragraph 4 of the Constitution, which states that "for the enactment of a constitutional act, 3/5 of all deputies must agree, and 3/5 of senators present", changing the constitution is a more difficult procedure than changing an ordinary statute, making it an entrenched constitution in the typology of constitutions. Despite the tradition of entrenched constitutions throughout Czech history, some voiced the opinion, during the preparation of the Constitution of the Czech Republic, that this one should be flexible.

So to produce such an effect, if there are laws that would prohibit bans on end-to-end encryption, say, those laws would need to be constitutional law or similar in an EU member state where such a law has a higher-than-ordinary bar to change.

[–] neshura@bookwyr.me 2 points 1 day ago

Introducing: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_10.html

Guarantees secret postal- and remote (original intent: radio) communications which applies to the internet ever since they thought they could make a quick buck by demanding radio broadcasting fees from youtubers, by which they placed the entire internet in the domain of radio laws.

[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

The EU is an economic-political union, not a socio-political union. Attempts to impose any sort of social law across all member nations feels like abuse of purpose, and also beside the point of having distinct member states in the first place.

[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 4 points 1 day ago

I will proudly do so

[–] vorpuni@jlai.lu 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Classical Athens punished the people who proposed evil laws with fines or way worse. But our enlightened ”democracies” just let this happen without repercussions.

[–] biofaust@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

In Athens they also ostracized people the majority didn't like from the polis, which is akin to what was once civil death.

Ancient Greece (and even less Rome, where I was born) are not at all my example of an enlightened society.

The question here is much simpler: Peter Hummelgård, Danish minister of justice and main author of the new proposal, is the man who got the Danish police a customized version of Palantir's Gotham to "fight immigrant gangs".

This is a man who recently said "we must break with the totally erroneous perception that it is everyone's civil liberty to communicate on encrypted messaging services", obviously lapping the peanut butter off Thiel's genitals.

Lobbying needs to be better regulated, but especially people like him and everyone who voted for his party should see our fingers pointing to their faces in real life and online.

That's how you fight this, by publicly shaming people for not grasping the fundamentals of Rights Culture.

[–] vorpuni@jlai.lu 1 points 1 day ago

I’m not saying the Ancient Greeks were nice, but I think politicians, especially career politicians, should face drastic consequences for betraying the constitution of the countries they’re supposed to serve. And classical Athens was only a minority of rulers among people who didn’t have any rights, but their institutions had some aspects that were more robust than modern States that have no checks and balances and rely on “but no one would ever do that”.

French police and municipalities have been using illegal surveillance (like Briefcam with the facial recognition enabled) for a long time and there are also no consequences, except for the fact the surveillance is being made increasingly legal because they “need” it.

[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 day ago

It's like Wheel of Time. The Dragon gets reborn again and again fighting "the last battle" forever.

[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 13 points 2 days ago

As the IRA said to Thatcher, you have to get lucky every time, we only have to get lucky once

[–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

For this kind of treasonous shit we really should have lifelong imprisonment back.

[–] pennomi@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago

Nah, a ban from holding public office would do the trick easily enough.

[–] Grainne@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 1 day ago

Rare German W.

[–] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 53 points 2 days ago (3 children)

You see the German government would really prefer to stay in limbo in a lot of matters. Never decide anything. Never get anything done. Just wait as years pass by. That‘s how we lost world leading solar and robotic technologies to China and that‘s how conservatives run the country. You can expect a lot more back and forth in the coming years. On this matter and many others.

[–] Don_alForno@feddit.org 19 points 1 day ago

That‘s how we lost world leading solar

"to altmeier sth.: to gleefully smash the thriving beginnings of a key industry of the future in your country at the behest of your wealthy donors and lobbyists, condemning your countrymen to watch from the sidelines while others take the cake for themselves."

[–] Melchior@feddit.org 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I wish. The last government did some good directional policy. For electric cars the German government doing nothing would be rather good. Same story for boilers.

[–] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I like saying the last government was partially dysfunctional and still achieved more progress in 3 years than Merkel did in 16. christian democrats weren‘t part of it so that‘s probably why.

[–] Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 day ago

And if the FDP wouldnt have Sabotaged it all it would have gotten done even more

[–] Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 2 points 1 day ago

The Austrian ÖVP similar to the CDU/CSU, but the average austrian voter is self-sabotaging, and so those political sloths have been in the government since fucking WW2, and since 2000 the only thing they seem to do is fill their own pockets with only the thinnest veneer of legality.

[–] qevlarr@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Electric cars

[–] Gobbel2000@programming.dev 23 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Facing a wave of calls and emails from the public...

We did it, Lemmy?

[–] Perspectivist@feddit.uk 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

We were the tiniest part in it.

[–] Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 2 points 1 day ago

I'm sure that the average Lemmy-User has an much larger influence on the people around them in things like privacy laws in relation to the average internet user, because we tend to hyperfixate and can't shut the fuck up lol

[–] Everyday0764@lemmy.zip 30 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Italy went to undecided? when? my spam worked?

[–] r4venw@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Who should I harass? Not sure who the best person for italy is

[–] Everyday0764@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 day ago

i just use the contact tool and spam ~100 emails to half the government

[–] mundane@piefed.world 27 points 2 days ago (1 children)

As a Swede, I'm truly ashamed that we shared Ylva Johansson (driving politician for this shit) with the rest of you.

[–] Lumisal@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

As a Finn, could you also reign in the Swedish Party here? Or, maybe just take them back.

[–] mundane@piefed.world 2 points 1 day ago

Or just throw them over the water to the east. Can you take care of them?

[–] Anonymaus@feddit.org 24 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I hope that this time it’s final and that they won’t just change their minds later.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 18 points 2 days ago

The fascist oligarchs of surveillance capitalism will keep trying until it passes, or until it becomes political/literal suicide to support it.

[–] Railcar8095@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Green being against+nwgative and red in favor+negative makes my brain ich in a way I can't scratch

[–] zaphod@sopuli.xyz 25 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] theolodis@feddit.org 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

But that's very subjective, maybe I am a state agent and would love to read your chats?

[–] liuther9@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Then you are bad and that is not subjective

[–] sauerkrautsaul@lemmus.org 7 points 2 days ago

thank fucking jesus for the krauts