Frankly, it’d be far better for the state, its finances, its residents, its energy infrastructure, and fire prevention across the state if they dismantled PG&E instead of this rooftop solar program.
this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2023
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It's almost as if deregulation of the energy industry was a bad move...
The amount of infrastructural, environmental, and societal damage done in the name of “deregulation” is truly appalling.
Well - they kinda needed the grid for this program. Basically, the incentive was you could install solar and send your excess power to the grid. Whatever you put on the grid, you could take back 1:1 when you needed it (ie. at night). Essentially, you could treat the grid as your battery, without needing to pay for a battery. This made the break even time horizon super short.
It also meant solar customers weren’t paying much for grid infrastructure and transmission costs.
Now, you can only draw back 25% of what you send to the grid. Getting a battery now makes more sense, but it’s also a big upfront cost.
Don’t get me wrong. PGE is evil incarnate and its execs should be sent to prison. The company should be seized by the public. Rates should be lowered on the backs of executive bonuses and salaries.
But, as a non-solar owner, I do think the previous deal was only going to increase costs for non-solar customers. It couldn’t last forever. Hopefully, the state does improve the current incentives just a bit though. More than anything though, the state needs to take control of PGE and fire the execs.
I’m talking about a permanent and irrevocable state takeover of the company. I grew up in California, and still have family there. PG&E has demonstrated that they are wildly inept - perhaps criminally so - for basically my entire life. They do not deserve to be a company.
"SAN FRANCISCO – California’s once-thriving residential solar industry is in ruins after state officials slashed rooftop solar incentives, causing thousands of job losses, said clean energy advocates and solar industry representatives during a recent virtual briefing.
The incentives played a crucial role in outfitting solar panels on approximately 2 million homes, establishing the state as the leader in the clean energy revolution. But the California Public Utilities Commission, or CPUC, bowed to demands from Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric to roll back those incentives."
Of course the gas/electric company hates it.
A big source of anti windmill propaganda around here came from the nuclear plant. Which is conviently owned by a gas pipeline company.
Not at all conflict of interest
And remember, the cost of labour doesn't effect the cost of electricity! Another point they love to preach as they also joke about how working there is like "playing hide and seek for 2 grand a week"
Welcome to the nuclear power generation industry in Canada.
I need some more context on the hide and seek joke.
Since you're highly paid, you want the job to take as long as it can. So you hide from getting any work done and get paid really well for doing it.
It's a take on Major Major's dad
Ahh thanks
Modern day capitalism in a nutshell
Not from California, what happened? Why was the program implemented and then scrapped?
The CPUC board, appointed by governer Newsom, gets to set the rules.
The utilities including PGE and So Cal Edison apparently own said governer.
They decided to pay wholesale prices for electricity sold back to the grid instead of residential prices. That means that any excess power sold goes from around 33 cents to 6 cents, meaning that most people won’t see a change in their bills after installing solar because most households use power at night when there is no sun. This leads to people just not installing solar panels anymore.
Looks like industry got what they wanted.
Wow...I just got solar installed in Arizona because of a subsidy. My monthly bill is now less than average and will never go up.
Your lower energy bill is just one side of it. The true win is for our planet.
We're not going to win hearts and minds unless we can show personally impactful results. Solar is an excellent way to do that.
Me for example; At this point I'd have to pay more for solar on my home. That's kinda hard to swallow unless you're well off.
I should note; Got a tiny house and it's very efficient. I suspect most homeowners would be better off on solar.
So, what you're saying is that people are selfish douchebags who care only about their own pocketbook? Sounds about right.
I'd love nothing more than to have solar panels and a home battery to help save the planet but I can't even afford my rent. How the fuck àm I supposed to buy a home and also I stall solar. Most Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. I don't think that it's self centered thinking that's the problem, personally.
We all need to do what we can, even when it's just little things like buying less plastic or considering sustainable groceries.
Right now, the US is one of the bigger culprits in the world, and a great place to start is to vote for people who actually want to do something for our planet.
Even if thousands of us get together and get solar, it will be offset because Bezos bought another mega yacht. They need to be regulated out of existence.
How stupid can you be?
Honestly, this was a pretty stupid policy in the first place. The maintenance and upkeep for all the houses is way more than just putting solar in the field somewhere. It was a policy that sounded good on paper, but did not actually work in practice. A much better policy would be a community owned solar power facility. The solar panels we have today will be obsolete in five years time if not sooner, a dedicated solar facility would be able to update panels overtime and handle the maintenance at scale. Much easier than trying to upgrade or maintain solar panels on top of a bunch of peoples houses.
Bullshit. Residential solar is point sourced and maintained with distributed resources. It powers the house it sits on.
It powers my EV directly with solar. I drive for free. How awesome is that.
“I drive for free”
So your solar panels didn’t cost anything? Look I’m very pro-solar but rooftop solar for residential makes sense for very few people. It’s not very efficient (even with the best panels available at the time) and the efficiency falls off over time as the panels degrade. Most rooftop solar savings calculations use absurd estimates for power costs in the future to justify themselves and take 10+ years to pay off. Furthermore selling a house with rooftop solar is harder due to having to find someone to take over the lease (which is needed to pay for it for most people).
None of this even starts to address the solar rooftop companies that have gone out of business while leaving their customer high and dry.
Again, I like solar but rooftop just doesn’t make sense for most people.
I apologize for my previous tone, but I vehemently disagree with most if not all of your premises so good luck to you. Not a good look to cherry pick and exaggerate all the negative possible outcomes.
If you aren't lying when you say you like solar, please stop spreading disinformation. It comes across like a petro-shill. It would be great if you could channel some of that energy into positive progressive effect. We are facing a mostly unimaginable crisis.
And yes, 'I drive for free' is working out pretty great. The solar I put on has an instant 2-300% ROI because it increases the value of the house by 4.1% (ref: zillow). 30% IRA ITC, SRECS, all help, too. Yes I paid cash for it, and that is very privileged, admittedly. And agreed, leasing is never a good option. Financing if you can't afford paying up front is an ok option. I also DIY'd my install so it was rather low cost up front. There are options out there.
Residential panel efficiency is now on par with commercial installations. Degradation is measured in decades. Warranty for materials and production is around 25 years.
Companies going out of business is not that big a deal. It's easy to pick up an existing installation and maintain it.
Best to all of us, we are in this together.