this post was submitted on 16 Dec 2023
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Suspects can refuse to provide phone passcodes to police, court rules::Phone-unlocking case law is "total mess," may be ripe for Supreme Court review.

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[–] brianorca@lemmy.world 84 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Thought this was already established precedent.

[–] CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world 69 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nope, each state is doing its own thing and the 5th ammendment is being trampled in a few of them. Biometrics and passwords are being forced and this is an amazing ruling for 5A advocates like myself.

SC needs to rule on it, but preferably not THIS supreme court

[–] AdamEatsAss@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But biometrics have never been covered by the 5th amendment. Police collect facial photos and fingerprints and have done so for years. On top of that any DNA you unknowing leave at a police station can be used as evidence (strand of hair, spit on the rim of a water glass). I would never recommend commiting a crime but if you do and have evidence of it on your phone don't use biometrics.

[–] CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Forcing someone to press on their phone to unlock it via fingerprunt is a lot different than just collecting data.

IMO, forced/coerced biometrics to unlock a device SHOULD be covered by 5A

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Exactly. If the hair I leave behind or my spit on the rim of a glass can unlock my phone, that sucks but those are public things I’ve left behind. Unless I leave my fingers behind on the officers desk, forcing me to unlock my phone with them should be should be a violation of my rights.

[–] xkforce@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not in a post Trump supreme court era it isnt

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I'll keep saying it; The Supreme Court is conservative, not partisan. They owe Trump nothing and have had a few surprising decisions lately.

I don't trust them a bit, but neither do I trust they'll always make the wrong call.

[–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

I don’t think that’s right. A group that very strongly believes in the Republican Party and its agenda and values would still be definitively partisan. Partisan has always been used in the context of following party lines, not necessarily one person.

[–] boreengreen@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

But you can trust they will make the wrong call after geting a very expensive vacation and a few dufflebags of money.

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[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 54 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mean, whether you say it's legal or not, I wouldn't give out my pass code to a police officer. You can get fucked on that one.

[–] gaael@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

In France it's illegal not to allow them to unlock your phone once they take you to the station. That's why most of the time we clean our phones or use burners during civil desobedience actions.

[–] boreengreen@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Won't they just keep you locked up perpetually for refusing then?

[–] Breezy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

They might also just shoot you.

[–] starman2112@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah, and I'll appeal the case all the way up to the Supreme Court. I have a constitutional right to not say a goddamn thing. The founding fathers knew what passwords and cyphers were. If they wanted to allow the state to compel you to give them access to information that they could use against you in court, they would have written that into the fifth amendment.

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[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 42 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Shut down your phones so they can't uze biometrics on you

[–] trash@lemm.ee 21 points 1 year ago (16 children)

Android also has a Lockdown mode that will disable biometrics until you unlock with the pin.

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[–] logicbomb@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

This is a complicated situation, but in my opinion, probably the correct decision.

Given this is the ruling, if you do believe your phone is about to be confiscated, and you don't want its contents to be used as evidence, it might be a good idea to turn off your phone. Although the police cannot compel a password, a biometric unlock is not a password. If you turn off your phone, it will generally require a password to enable biometric unlock.

[–] sorghum@sh.itjust.works 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's not complicated at all. The constitution guarantees the right that no one be compelled to testify against themselves.

[–] thesmokingman@programming.dev 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It is complicated in the US because of biometrics and the wide use of contempt citations. If you “forget” your password, you can be held in contempt and jailed for up to 18 months (I missed that; last I knew it was indefinite). Biometrics and other “something you are” items can be forcibly taken (eg your fingerprints or retinal scans) with full legal backing. Your perspective, while laudable, only exists in the potential future orgs like the EFF and ACLU are fighting to create. It is very wrong today.

[–] AdamEatsAss@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don't understand the USA law that well, probably not a good thing because I've lived here my whole life, but don't the Miranda rights say "you have the right to remain silent" and the 5th amendment says you have the right to not answer any questions that would self incriminate yourself? The police can't legally compell a private citizen to tell them a phone passcode or anything and I think any defense lawyer would immediately call out a judge who posed the threat of contemp over this.

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[–] Brkdncr@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Most phones have a way to use a button sequence force the next lock to require a PIN code. iPhone is just hitting the side button 5x for instance.

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[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

So, there's a bunch of factors going on regarding crap like this. The general argument is that the passwords are protected by the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, the protection against testifying against yourself. While biometrics are not.

Then there's the Constitution Free Zone established by the DHS and ICE and upheld by some judges depending on how related to immigrant control your detention by law enforcement is. The Federalist Society doesn't like non-nationals, and if you can't prove you're an American in the zone (100 inland from any US border) then you get zero Constitutional protections.

Then there's the matter that law enforcement can lie to you to convince you to authorize searches. So they may insist you are required by law to open your device for them when you are not. This is why you don't cooperate without a lawyer. For now police are not allowed to give you a fake lawyer and lawyers, even public defenders, are required to adhere to a code of ethics to serve in the client's interests. But this may change in the next few years as rights in the US deteriorate.

Then police departments in Cook County (Chicago), New York City and Los Angeles have all used the $5 wrench method to force detainees to open their devices. While there are allegedly laws against this sort of thing, it doesn't slow down the precincts, and judges sometimes uphold found evidence in court the way they'll uphold coerced confessions.

So it's really better not to interact with law enforcement ever if you can avoid it, and to have a high powered defense lawyer if you can afford to establish a legal relationship with one. If you're doing something the state wouldn't like (say, operating a mutual aid program) then look into having multiple accounts on your phone, one of which is pristine and can call your grandma. Then you have the option to unlock to that account rather than the one that has your life's history (and all your CFAA violations).

[–] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago

This is the most American thing I've read in a long time. I lived for decades in several European countries, and this description just seems like a different planet.

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[–] reverendsteveii@lemm.ee 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

this is still up in the air, but it seems to be generally breaking such that police can force you to use fingerprints or faceID to unlock your phone because fingerprints and face scans are evidence, but you can refuse to give them a passcode because a passcode is testimony. so use passcodes, not biometrics.

[–] hackitfast@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That's what the 'Lockdown' feature on Pixel phones does.

https://9to5google.com/2022/03/08/how-to-enable-lockdown-mode-on-pixel/

Impossible to force a fingerprint or face scan because it asks the phone to only accept passcodes.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think all Android phones have this feature, but it has to be turned on.

You can also turn your phone off if they ask for it. Phones need the password to unlock if they've been turned off.

But I like lockdown more, since it can still record audio.

[–] dorron@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Wow thanks had no idea this was an option on my Samsung. . it was just hiding disabled in my settings as "lockdown mode"

[–] hubobes@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Also nice to know, on an iPhone you can press power and volume up for a few second and then cancel the upcoming dialog. It will only be then require your pin to enable any other authentication method.

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[–] obinice@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

* in the USA.

Would be handy to have that key piece of information on the title, so I know I don't need to read the article, as it's about law in a different country.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

While it’s tough to have any sympathy for an offender like this, even the worst monsters are entitled to due process and their rights as human beings. Most of the article is about disobeying the court, so that really shouldn’t be news.

It’s the twisted logic that got them there that’s really suspect. If I can paraphrase, “we don’t have enough evidence to incriminate you so you must provide that evidence. The ruling stand because the police already know you’re guilty so incriminating yourself is not self-incrimination”. Yeah, I took some liberties with it, but not as much as the court

At least the ruling limiting jail time makes sense, you can’t imprison someone for contempt longer than the court proceedings, or impanelment, or 18 months, whichever comes first. I didn’t see any implications in the article, but hopefully it either applies generally to contempt, or any contempt charge has a similar limitation. You can’t just imprison someone indefinitely for refusing to speak

[–] starman2112@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Totalitarians try to use cases like this to take your rights away. Never forget how this impacts the innocent. If they can force this man to unlock his phone, they can force any innocent person to do the same. If the police think you've committed a crime, accessing your phone will never make them think you're innocent. The absolute best case scenario is that they don't find anything useful to their case. The worst case scenario is that they find your social media account where you called arson based last year, and they will use that against you.

[–] JCreazy@midwest.social 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] glorious_albus@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Bold of you to assume human rights are respected.

[–] whenigrowup356@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I think we're sort of deciding that right now? Lots of new technologies are getting out ahead of any substantial laws that would protect human rights in these situations.

[–] whenigrowup356@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What if you have face unlock?

[–] Mamertine@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Last I heard biometrics were not protected. As in you have to unlock your phone upon request. A code, pattern or other thing you know was treated differently from using your body to unlock your phone.

[–] Ashe@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 year ago

In my state, police aren't allowed to use your fingerprint against you, but they can use facial recognition. It's backwards and doesn't make a ton of sense, but that's the state of affairs.

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 4 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


Criminal suspects can refuse to provide phone passcodes to police under the US Constitution's Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination, according to a unanimous ruling issued today by Utah's state Supreme Court.

Police officers obtained a search warrant for the contents of Valdez's phone but couldn't crack his passcode.

At his trial, the state "elicited testimony from the detective about Valdez's refusal to provide his passcode when asked," today's ruling said.

"And during closing arguments, the State argued in rebuttal that Valdez's refusal and the resulting lack of evidence from his cell phone undermined the veracity of one of his defenses.

"While these circumstances involve modern technology in a scenario that the Supreme Court has not yet addressed, we conclude that these facts present a more straightforward question that is answered by settled Fifth Amendment principles."

"One of the major issues in the law of digital evidence investigations is how the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination applies to unlocking phones," Kerr wrote.


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