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I'm on the market to buy a new laptop, and Lemmy has successfully coaxed and goaded me to give Linux a serious try.
I've never used *nix as my personal OS.
Which hardware/laptop do you recommend? And which OS to pair it with for a Linux newbie?
I'm a software engineer, and quit my job to pursue an MSc in AI. So my uses will be:
Framework, System76, Slimbook and Tuxedo are great choices
Second framework. The upgradeable is unmatched... Except if you want to go from the 13inch to 16inch.
Framework
This. It's awesome. I have the i7-1165G7 and my son has the newer intel one. I prefer the smaller one but the larger one has a dedicated GPU. This is all you need... everything is replaceable. But pick the size you most likely need
Another happy framework user. I have the AMD 13. The modularity allowed me to completely disassemble and clean/save the machine when my wife spilled an entire chai latte on a 1 week old computer. Fan can get a little loud, but the machine just works great and there's a great community around it.
I was so close to buying a Framework and put Linux on it, but unfortunately my job requires me to use macOS, so I got a MacBook. I read a lot about the noise caused by the single fan, but the I'd say it's worth it for the modular ports.
I have a very similar use case so here is my opinion.
HARDWARE
-No dGPU unless this is your PRIMARY gaming computer. (Reason: better battery life, lighter laptop, with recent AMD iGPU you have decent performance for non-VR/not massive openworld AAA games.)
-recent AMD CPU. (Reason: better performance to watt ratio than Intel which makes a big difference for most of your use cases. Better multi-core performance which makes compiling code much faster. Massively better iGPU for light-medium duty gaming.)
-atleast 16GB ram if not expandable but as much as you can reasonably budget.
-16:10 or taller aspect ratio screen (16:9 sucks on laptop size devices, the extra height makes a big difference for school, coding, browsing, pretty much everything but watching 16:9 movies)
-Resolution: personal preference. IMO 1080p or 1920*1200 for 16:10 is ideal for 14" and below laptops. Lower resolution means better battery and on a small screen the PPI is high enough. If you are OK with a trade off of battery life and want a super crisp display then 2K is the highest I would go. 4K is retarded on laptop sized screens unless you are plugged in 90% of the time and you'll have to fuck with scaling then.
-metal body for stiffness and durability
-decent key travel (usually longer travel means better IME)
If you want to do machine learning/AI work professionally I use and recommend investing in a dedicated desktop with a large memory nvidia (cuda cores) GPU and installing the cuda drivers. Trying to cram commercially viable ai hardware into a laptop is a losing battle and you'll end up with a worse experience for both use cases, wont be able to fit large models in the memory anyways, and end up buying a desktop for AI while being stuck with a laptop that is worse for laptop use)
SOFTWARE
#1 Nobara OS KDE - best OOB experience for gaming IMO. Easy transition from windows. Has kernel fixes and many laptop specific fixes (asusctrl for example) by default which means you have a good chance of extra features like LEDs, fingerprint, etc working without tinkering). Fedora based.
#2 Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE6) - best non-gaming distro to learn and grow into IMO. Access to deb packages. Stable. (nobara has been stable for me as well, but it is LMDE's bread and butter). Ease of transition from windows. Can game just as well if you are capable of following simple instructions to configure the stuff done by default on nobara and pop (may need to manually change kernels, drivers, etc to get the best performance on new hardware)
#3 Pop_OS - used it for years, but I prefer Nobara after comparing. Ubuntu based so you have access deb packages without ubuntu's bullshit. Setup out of the box for gaming. I got fed up with failed updates, broken packages, and sluggishness so I swapped to nobara which has been a treat.
EDIT: you can snag some good deals on amazon warehouse deals (used-like new) laptops. These are usually just open box returns and if there is anything wrong you have 30 days to return it.
I recently upgraded to an Asus vivobook S 14x OLED (M5402R) for $780 CAD ($580USD) with a ryzen 7 6800H, 16GB DDR5, a 1TB gen 4 nvme, and it has zero signs of use, slight coil whine under load that I can only hear if I put my ear next to the keyboard and don't have any sound or music on (I suspect this was the reason for the return on mine since its a common complaint for this model. That's what I was hoping for since I'm not that picky and its worth the steep discount IMO.) Everything works oob on Nobara. I believe lenovo also regularly heavily discounts their previous gen thinkpads which are a great option, although the AMD configs are rare. Good luck!
I can only argue with metal body here: that'd vary on model-to-model basis. I've had a few thinkpads made of plastic, and they're fine after a few drops here and there, and hinges are alive and well, also I've seen some (mostly new-ish) laptops made of literal aluminum foil that are bent AF; what's even worse, one wasn't even what they call unibody, i.e. the frame was sandwiched of aluminum shell and a piece of crappy plastic with heat inserts for screws β after like a year of normal usage those inserts literally broke off with the surrounding plastic.
The latter one was some ultrabook by HP. Namedropping here 'cause I have some personal issues with their products, so, frankly speaking, fuck them in particular :)
I'd like to declare that HP sucks ass. That is all.
I just want a modern AMD apu laptop with coreboot, slotted ram and multiple nvme slots, but like everything these days it would seem I'm asking for too much.
I've heard great things about system76, never had one of their laptops myself but still have the desktop I got in 2011 (Wild Dog Pro). I personally use the frame.work 13, and it has been working great with Arch installed. I do not recommend Arch, use something like PopOS, or LinuxMint.
I have been eyeing a framework laptop. Just curious how you use the modular ports in your case: do you have different ones you swap sometimes?
2 type c's and 2 type A USB are in it 99% of the time. I have the HDMI, and display port modules but have rarely used them. I also keep the 2.5Gb Ethernet for when I break the WiFi to get back into the router, and a microsd for when I reflash my raspberry pi's .
Is there any advantage to having extra ports over a dongle with all of those at once?
IMO, modular ports is not the main selling point for Framework. I was sold on their commitment to a platform that is repairable/upgradable.
Other than they fit nicely into a pocket in my backpack...no. The main reason I love their product is the reparability aspect, allowing me to swap ports is just a neat feature.
I have a "typical" set of ports (2x USB-C, HDMI, USB-A) that's on my laptop most of the time. I also have the 2.5GbE adapter that I use occasionally.
I keep a copy of Windows installed on a storage card, saves from having to mess about with partitioning for dual booting.
I was typing up a reply and realized this said most of what I was saying. The only thing I'd add is that support matters, popularity matters. Supported or popular HW platforms are less likely to have small random niggles than an off the shelf dell laptop. System 76 or tuxedo lines are ideal supported platforms. Think pads area super popular.
PopOS or Mint are as easy to use as ubuntu, but without being chained to snaps, which everyone is moving towards flatpaks except canonical
Check out the Framework 16. Ubuntu and Fedora are officially supported. I run Debian on my Framework 13 no problem.
https://linuxpreloaded.com/ for a longer list
These are my favorites (EU based)
Tuxedo Computers can get you a very good dev laptop for ~1500β¬ (64GB RAM, AMD/Intel CPU, NVIDIA/AMD graphics card). If you will be working in AI, I imagine you'll need CUDA (?) aka NVIDIA.
If you don't go for anything on linuxpreloaded (which I wouldn't recommend), it's good to check whether what you're buying has linux hardware support by checking the Linux Hardware DB. Even if you don't look, it'll probably work, but better safe than sorry if you're going to dump 1/3 or 1/2 of your months salary into something (depending on where you are).
For a distro, I dunno what level you are, but Distro Chooser can help you out with making a choice. My recommendations:
linux beginner
Linux mint. nice desktop environment, looks like a mashup between windows and mac, still missing advanced options, but quite customisable. comes with suitable standard software and cloud integrations (you can connect to a bunch of clouds), relatively up to date
Ubuntu is well-known, some proprietary companies even consider it "the linux" and only make linux versions for it. It's quite stable. However, it isn't my first recommendation anymore as they are going down a proprietary route. I'm not sure if they have ads yet, but wouldn't surprise me if they started.
desktop environment
This is the desktop suite, a bundle of packages that work well together on any distro, with its own look and feel. There are basically 3 camps:
Which distro makes you wanna rent a penguin and smash your monitor with an apple? What would you reocmmend?
System76 and Framework
ThinkPad cus framework still doesn't have a trackpoint :p
uhh ThinkPad yes ThinkPad ThinkPad is linux THINKPAD PENGUIN
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fine print: oh yea also framework
I'm just here to say that lemmy should have an integration with Midjourney that automatically creates an image based on the content of the text.
I have a Framework laptop and just installed Ubuntu on it the other day, it works great. Ubuntu and Fedora are officially supported by Framework and there's a bunch of other distros that are confirmed tested. I have the 13" but the 16" just came out with a dedicated GPU, that's probably the one to get if you're going to game on it
Framework have support for everything, including the built-in fingerprint sensor. So I think my next laptop will be this.
Thinkpads (p14s are a good example) are really great with everything except probably gaming. Having a good GPU usually just comes at the cost of battery life.
Fedora or Nobara for OS
If you reaaaaaally want gaming, you could look at external GPU via thunderbolt or USB 4
If you want something even lighter, Samsung makes some decent laptops with insane battery life and really thin metal casing. Only issue is they're usually expensive and don't drop in price like Thinkpads sometimes do.
Check if your university has a laptop program with sweet discounts, or look for other student discount offerings first. Could be worth it.
Get some live distro first and check it out without installation. You will be able to test some basic desktop environments very easily. Most of the distros will have live image. Even better run it in a virtual machine and play around. Test KDE, Gnome, Cinnamon and XFCE. Look at some themes and plugins. I think customizing your desktop is a nice, visual way to see how flexible it all is and get the feel of how configuration files work. If you will like what you can achieve with a bit of work you will just keep going. If you will find it 'stupid and useless' it's probably not for you.
I don't know if I can recommend framework. I've been having lots of reliability issues with their hardware.
I had massive issues a few months in. Lots of weird issues such as SSD randomly disconnects, screen flicker & system crashes, and issues with powering on after leaving the laptop overnight.
Been emailing back and forth with them since October trying out different fixes. All this time I haven't really been able to use my laptop reliably. It should be getting sorted eventually. Their warrenty is pretty good and they finally agreed to replace the whole thing.
The laptop was nice. The modular ports was kinda cool because you can choose your io. The nice part was being able to open the laptop and upgrade parts without voiding warrenty. I think this is hardware issues rather than linux compatibility issues.
Maybe a Thinkpad would be more reliable for uni work
Just gonna throw in a recommendation for Nobara as a distro. Based on Fedora, maintained by Glorious egroll who makes great versions of proton. Distro is tuned for gaming but is great for regular use too. Used it for over a year and set my GF up with it as her first Linux desktop.
Most stuff has already been said, but I'll just add my 2 cents:
I/O is very important. I got a laptop with a pathetic amount of ports and I deeply regret it. Don't be like me
Any modern Thinkpad will run any Linux distro easy, from bios updates up to gaming with Proton. Dell laptops also have a good linux support. Try to avoid laptops with Nvidia cards though, AMD driver installation is way easier if not completely invisible/painless.
I have a Dell XPS, very compatible and essentially had no issues. Sleek laptops too, good for being on the road.
I have a framework. The smaller one. I think they have two now. One of the older CPUs. Got it now than a year ago and it's been solid. Disclaimer: I don't run Linux on it, so IDK what that's like at the moment.
I've used most makes and models of laptops and desktops at some point for some duration... The hazards of being in IT.... I can't recommend anything from Microsoft. Simply too hard to do anything with when anything goes wrong and you're entirely at the mercy of MS for everything. I personally don't like Lenovo, I've had a few Lenovo's that have their PCIe slots locked to only accept specific device I.D.s in the firmware. I had to flash a hacked firmware to upgrade the wifi in one. It was an unpleasant experience. It did eventually work, but it was not fun. I also don't care for their keyboard layouts. That's been improved recently from what I've heard, I'm still equally not a fan of their systems.
I've had the most experience with HP and Dell, and for the most part they're very similar. Anything from their business lines will perform quite well though graphics may only be whatever comes integrated with the CPU.
I always push towards business systems because from what I've seen, they're more robust and usually don't break nearly as fast.
I'd think about getting an eGPU for gaming since no matter how powerful the system or it's GPU is, it will be massively outdated long before the system fails or becomes inoperable from age. With an eGPU external enclosure, you can upgrade any time you like to a desktop card for much cheaper than replacing the system. Most eGPU enclosures can also act as docking stations, providing power and even network and other things along with the graphics connection.
That's a lot of hardware talk though. I'm not going to tell you what to pick, I'm just making the best recommendations I can given the information available to me.
Good luck
A couple mentions in here of Linux Mint, I also recommend it having tried out a few distros before landing here. Especially if you go with an external GPU laptop, which might be a good choice for gaming needs, then Linux Mint has been really good about solving all of the annoying driver problems that could come up.
I have a Dell G15 Ryzen (AMD with nvidia GPU), it's been pretty good but there's always a trade-off between bulkiness and gaming needs. It's just a little awkward to lug around to coffee shops, but it's certainly got enough processing power for me.
System76 was a contender too, I think I just went with whichever was on sale!
Same here. Just don't forget to get the AMD version.
Not a recommendation, but a personal note: I'm waiting for the System76 Virgo, which is their (perhaps hyped up) upcoming Laptop built in Denver by themselves, instead of being a Clevo thing. But I have no idea how long I have to wait. Could be years.
There was some publicity about it about 5 months ago, and there's this github repo: https://github.com/system76/virgo -- but not much more. Not sure if it's still alive.
I hope it won't be a lot more expensive than Macbooks are when it comes out.
If you just want stuff to work with minimal hassle, Linux Mint is an excellent choice. PopOS is also often recommended, especially for laptops. If you really want to get into the nitty gritty, something Arch based might fit the bill.
Some recommendations I would suggest are: -Linux-specific laptops (HP Dev One, System76, etc.) as they are built specifically with running Linux in mind. -Framework Laptops, as Framework has worked hard to make sure Linux works well with their devices. -ThinkPads, as their hardware usually tends to work really well with Linux.
I personally use the Framework Laptop 13 running Debian, and I love it!
I see a lot of Framework recommendations, and I had the 12th gen Framework for around a year running Fedora. I faced a bunch of excessive power use issues, and had to add some kernel flags just to get maybe 4 hours of battery life. The device is notoriously repairable, but the one thing that conked out on me was actually the mainboard, which was like the price of a new device. Support spent two weeks trying to find out if it was anything else before sending me a replacement mainboard.
My friend recently got a Zenbook 14 OLED with the same processor. The entire device was $200 cheaper lightly used than the Frameworks mainboard alone, and the only issue is the speakers don't work. That being said, he gets almost double my battery life, and a 90hz OLED screen on top of it all. Plus more ports; even with Framework's modular add-in cards I don't feel it is as flexible a system as having >4 useful ports.
My time with the Framework was great, but I wouldn't recommend it. Getting something secondhand is an environmentally conscious option, and you can get great stuff secondhand.
I use an asus rog g15 from 2021. It actually has pretty great linux support with asus-ctl but I can't recommend it in good concience for professional purposes, it is decked out with rgb also asus has a pretty bad reputation of customer support.