I have been using Matrix since I've been on Lemmy. It's an open source encrypted chat application, and obviously Lemmy DMs are not encrypted so it's kinda necessary for private communication. I have a few questions though.

Is there a community about Matrix on Lemmy?

Is Matrix technically part of the fediverse? I noticed it does not appear on fedidb.com. On a related note, what is the active userbase size?

Who is the developer/team and do they have an active presence on the fediverse?

Thank you for anyone who can answer my questions and also to the Matrix devs, I greatly appreciate you. But I am just curious about some of the details about Matrix which I already know about for Lemmy, Piefed, Mbin, etc. Matrix is an essential component of the fediverse ecosystem, so I think it would be prudent to have a greater understanding of it and potentially seek more cross-pollination and/or collaboration between the threadiverse and Matrix.

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[–] pruwybn@discuss.tchncs.de 65 points 2 days ago (1 children)

To be Fediverse it has to be from the ActivityPub region of France, otherwise it's just sparkling federated services.

[–] Coyote@piefed.ca 11 points 2 days ago

Mmm, sniff the cork on that API.

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 17 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Is there a community about Matrix on Lemmy?

!matrix@programming.dev

Is Matrix technically part of the fediverse?

I would say no. It doesn't use ActivityPub and is its own thing. It's federated in that indepedent Matrix servers can talk to each other (like email or Nextcloud). So while email would be considered a federated service, it's not considered part of the fediverse. At most, it's like a 2nd cousin.

Who is the developer/team and do they have an active presence on the fediverse?

Matrix.org foundation (https://matrix.org/) and not sure. Maybe some of the individual contributors do, but I don't know any off the top of my head

[–] Shimitar@downonthestreet.eu 5 points 2 days ago

The foundation is just a placeholder, everything is governed by the commercial entity behind Element and Synapse. Not good IMHO, but this is what matrix is.

[–] Kierunkowy74@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

You can follow matrix.org via Mastodon/Misskey/Mbin/etc.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Is Matrix technically part of the fediverse? I noticed it does not appear on fedidb.com.

Depends on your definition of Fediverse, but I think most people would say no, even though it is a federated protocol.

On a related note, what is the active userbase size?

The company behind Matrix it is known to vastly inflate user-numbers for scamming investors, but a somewhat realistic estimate for the openly federated Matrix network is 200-300k MAU (as shared by the Element CEO when pressed on a realistic number).

Who is the developer/team and do they have an active presence on the fediverse?

It is mostly developed by Element / New Vector Inc., but they have a non-profit front with the Matrix Foundation.

You didn't ask, but conceptually Matrix is closer to Bluesky than to the Fediverse. If you want a Fediverse equivalent for chat, look into XMPP/Jabber, which is based on an truly open standard and is democratically governed by an independent community organization.

[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Useful summary. If it's correct that Matrix is analogous to Bluesky (and perhaps Signal too, or possibly Ubuntu), and that the purer alternative is XMPP, then I'm taking that as confirmation that Matrix is what we need.

Bluesky, with its evilcorp backers with $$$ on the line, has far superior UX to the fediverse and is therefore an order of magnitude more popular. A world where Matrix takes off in a similar way is IMO much better for the cause of software freedom than a continuation of the present one where some pure but unusable version of XMPP putters along with almost no users for decade after decade.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Have fun with the next round of enshittification then 🤷

XMPP and the Fediverse works just fine as far as I am concerned.

[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Sure but you'll never have anyone to talk to except a few unusually principled eccentrics with tech skills. Between "XMPP forever" and evil big tech, taking a more pragmatic attitude might result in freer software for more people.

[–] kudra@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 days ago

ime is hard to get normies to use Element/Matrix, to the point now I know this about Matrix (I've used Element for years and never realised it was closer to Bluesky) I'm going to look into what is functional and under active development in the XMPP space these days.

[–] Shimitar@downonthestreet.eu 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Matrix is not fediverse. Matrix is created and controlled by a private company, which mask itself as acceptable by using a placeholder "foundation" that's just a puppet.

Luckly matrix is based on a bunch of "standards" so there are alternative implementations like Continuwuity (also written in rust and pretty fast) instead of Synapse, Fluffy Chat instead of Element-x and so on.

But no, matrix is not fediverse, it's not compatible and will never be (my opinion) because the commercial entity behind the matrix standards has no intention to open up that much the matrix ecosystem.

Yeah, it's not that good as it seems. Still, I believe it's the best option and the most mature.

[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

But no, matrix is not fediverse, it's not compatible and will never be (my opinion) because the commercial entity behind the matrix standards has no intention to open up that much the matrix ecosystem.

not compatible with what? ActivityPub? that's no different from XMPP

and which part of the matrix ecosystem is not open?

[–] Shimitar@downonthestreet.eu 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yes Matrix is not compatible with AP. Just a fact, not a judgment.

Well, matrix is supposedly open but it's driven by the company behind it and there is no real way to further advance the standards without the company agreement. The foundation is more a facade than e steering committee, not even the source code is managed by the foundation.

But again, I use matrix myself so I am not shitting matrix, just pointing out some stuff about it.

[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yes Matrix is not compatible with AP. Just a fact, not a judgment.

of course, I don't debate that. but you brought that up as a conclusion of matrix not being open. and it does not make sense. matrix not being compatible with AP is not because "matrix is closed" (whatever that means), but because the own protocol of matrix works vastly differently. its an entirely different thing. both are competing protocols for communication services. surely bridges could be developed, but these just cannot be "compatible"

[–] Shimitar@downonthestreet.eu 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Where did I ever wrote that matrix is not open? I think you misunderstood me

[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

that's the part I understood that way:

But no, matrix is not fediverse, it's not compatible and will never be (my opinion) because the commercial entity behind the matrix standards has no intention to open up that much the matrix ecosystem.

[–] Shimitar@downonthestreet.eu 1 points 1 day ago

It is a commercial entity, and they will never evolve the matrix standards to include an Activity Pub interface. Sadly, since they are the ones approving the additions do matrix standards, they also have the power not toke that to be.

So, yes, while matrix is open, is not really open in the sense that anyone can add pieces to the underlying.