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-120

The left is missing out on AI (www.transformernews.ai)

submitted 2 weeks ago by Deep@mander.xyz to c/technology@lemmy.world

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[–] throbbing_banjo@lemmy.world 93 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Right? Why aren't leftists embracing the environmentally-destructive mechanism the techbro billionaires are using to simultaneously enrich themselves and enslave humanity?

[+] Eyekaytee@aussie.zone -20 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Why aren’t leftists embracing the environmentally-destructive

It's only as environmentally destructive as the environment in which it operates, if you train your AI in France using Nuclear power it is effectively carbon free training is it not? The biggest limitation on the carbon use of AI appears to be entirely limited to how fast or slow the USA transitions to renewable energy.

If you run your LLM locally on a solar powered device is that not carbon free inference?

the techbro billionaires are using to simultaneously enrich themselves and enslave humanity?

enrich themselves? I thought AI was a massive money losing adventure bubble that was about to pop?

enslave humanity? I thought AI was slop not worth of even being used because apparently all it does is hallucinate answers?

[–] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You do realize, don't you, that there is more to hurting the environment than just energy use, right?

Water use is through the roof, and water is kind of useful for making food and keeping humans alive: https://theconversation.com/data-centers-consume-massive-amounts-of-water-companies-rarely-tell-the-public-exactly-how-much-262901

Construction uses concrete and steel and other natural resources, as well as using gas to run the heavy equipment to build.

Large centers take away natural land that could be used as carbon sinks but instead are concrete heat traps.

There are more hits to the environment, but I'm not going to lay them out. Just looking at one source of possible energy use, which they aren't actually using since many are in the US and not in France, is stupid.

Also, to your pseudo-intellectual "gotcha" points about thinking AI was a waste so how can billionaires profit: just because it doesn't make money in the long run doesn't mean billionaires aren't making a TON of money in the short run. Long term losses will be born by the public and not private money-holders. And even if AI is mostly useless, billionaires will still lay off employees only to learn that AI was in fact worthless, but the people who lost their jobs will fall further into debt and will be slaves to that debt.

[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

You do understand, that AI doesn't need to be run in data centers. Much less water cooled ones right? Don't make the mistake of thinking that anyone showing an interest in AI is for or defending the broligarchs. In fact I would wager that most of them are just as against them if not more so than even you.

You as a complete novice could download Jan or comfy ui and run both on your PC. I would never use any of them as final output, or ever trust them. But I will say that feeding a list of data into a model in Jan and having it format and annotate it, barring necessary corrections can be useful. Not a replacement for people, but a useful tool.

No one but the oligarchs and their lackey's want to see it implemented as they are currently implementing it.

[–] throbbing_banjo@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

*promotional consideration for this post was provided by Palantir.

[–] Eyekaytee@aussie.zone -5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

what is promotional consideration?

[–] throbbing_banjo@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I'm calling you a shill

[–] Iconoclast@feddit.uk 8 points 2 weeks ago

Even if they were a shill I don't understand what you imagine achieving by telling them that as if they don't already know.

Or maybe you're not actually even talking to them but rather just performing to your imagined audience.

[–] Eyekaytee@aussie.zone -5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

ah, next time if you could be a bit clearer or ideally not respond at all that’d be great

i prefer people who can argue not just throw shit

[–] ThunderQueen@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

What, chat gpt didnt know those words either?

[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago

you lost all your remaining credibility when you were fantasizing about the "Caring AI Girlfriend/Boyfriend"

[–] GreenBeard@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It’s only as environmentally destructive as the environment in which it operates, if you train your AI in France using Nuclear power it is effectively carbon free training is it not? The biggest limitation on the carbon use of AI appears to be entirely limited to how fast or slow the USA transitions to renewable energy.

Distracting hypothetical - ie a red herring. The question is not is it conceivable to build AI in a way that isn't inherently environmentally destructive. It isn't being done. Not at scale, nor is there any plans to do so. There's no intention to reduce reliance on fossil fuels powering datacenters. There isn't even a suggestion of intention to give lip-service to the problem so fantasizing about it serves no purpose.

enrich themselves? I thought AI was a massive money losing adventure bubble that was about to pop?

These are not mutually exclusive. The golden parachute problem still exists.

enslave humanity? I thought AI was slop not worth of even being used because apparently all it does is hallucinate answers?

That it is worthless doesn't make it not psychologically destructive. People want things that destroy their lives all the time. Drugs, gambling, AI sex bots, etc. We've known for a very long time there's ways to hijack people's behaviour and make them behave in ways that violate their values and good sense. The fact that AI slop directly engages in hacking our brains, and filling our heads with junk data and hallucinations is not internally inconsistent.

[–] Eyekaytee@aussie.zone -2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It isn’t being done. Not at scale, nor is there any plans to do so

There is here in Australia

Adding to clean energy supply and minimising water footprints will become national expectations for new data centres built on Australian soil.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/byo-renewables-new-national-principles-set-bar-for-data-centre-energy-and-water-use/

There is in Europe:

In Europe renewables and nuclear are set to supply most of the additional electricity required, with their combined share rising to 85% by 2030. Japan and Korea together account for about 5% of global data centre electricity demand today, a share they are expected to retain to 2030. Renewables and nuclear are set to provide nearly 60% of the electricity consumed by data centres in 2030, up from 35% today. The rest of the world is responsible for about 10% of total data centre electricity generation, with Southeast Asia and India accounting for a significant portion of that. In both regions, coal remains a key pillar of the data centre electricity supply, but renewables are projected to eclipse it by 2035.

https://www.iea.org/reports/energy-and-ai/energy-supply-for-ai

It's simple economics, renewables are the cheapest form of electricity so they want it, America != the world

The fact that AI slop directly engages in hacking our brains, and filling our heads with junk data and hallucinations is not internally inconsistent.

But how does being fed useful information, coding for us, providing interesting stories, a caring AI boyfriend or girlfriend lead us to enslavement? This is like suggesting we're slaves to McDonalds, it's feels less like slavery and more like hyperbole, especially with the existence of open source models...

There isn’t even a suggestion of intention to give lip-service to the problem so fantasizing about it serves no purpose

Speaking of open source models, happy release day of mistral medium!

https://huggingface.co/mistralai/Mistral-Medium-3.5-128B

It's from Mistral a french company!

Today, as AI becomes increasingly integrated into every layer of our economy, it is crucial for developers, policymakers, enterprises, governments and citizens to better understand the environmental footprint of this transformative technology. At Mistral AI, we believe that we share a collective responsibility with each actor of the value chain to address and mitigate the environmental impacts of our innovations.

https://mistral.ai/news/our-contribution-to-a-global-environmental-standard-for-ai

Maybe there is a suggestion ?

[–] GreenBeard@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Misdirection. You're comparing the equivalent of small local retailers with a multinational mega-corps the scale of Amazon. Such projects are a rounding error in the wider market.

But how does being fed useful information, coding for us, providing interesting stories, a caring AI boyfriend or girlfriend lead us to enslavement?

The "Usefulness" of this information is questionable at best, and wildly incorrect all too often. "Coding for us" is a double edged sword in that it makes an appealing shortcut, while also leaving us at extreme risk when it makes what is all too often a critical mistake we don't understand, a problem which will only get worse as we gradually forget how to code for ourselves. Also, it's not a "Caring AI Boyfriend" its a simulacrum of human interaction that does not care about anyone or anything. It's a Lovecraftian horror dressed up as a relationship. A perversion that treats humanity as a disease to be treated into remission.

[–] Eyekaytee@aussie.zone 1 points 2 weeks ago

Misdirection. You’re comparing the equivalent of small local retailers with a multinational mega-corps the scale of Amazon. Such projects are a rounding error in the wider market.

What percentage of data centres are in America vs the rest of the world?

[–] harmbugler@piefed.social 53 points 2 weeks ago

Aragorn was missing out on the power of the ring.

[–] luokaton@lemmy.zip 49 points 2 weeks ago

lol no… many leftists are very outspoken on AI, like my friends at Tech Workers Coalition

the article uses “Democratic Party” as a synonym of “leftist” 🙄

[–] sns@lemmy.dbzer0.com 30 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

How high are you right meow?

[–] Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 2 weeks ago

Woof

[–] RoddyStiggs@lemmy.blahaj.zone 23 points 2 weeks ago

No... No we're good.

[–] antonim@lemmy.world 22 points 2 weeks ago

Is this some sort of rage/engagement bait? Lol

[–] db2@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago

[–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago

No thank you.

[–] black0ut@pawb.social 18 points 2 weeks ago

This whole article reads like copium

[–] Walk_blesseD@piefed.blahaj.zone 11 points 2 weeks ago

Good. We don't want it.

[–] XLE@piefed.social 7 points 2 weeks ago

Article claims leftists aren't engaging with AI in a meaningful way.

It lists people and groups it disagrees with, and then... Doesn't engage with those disagreements in a meaningful way.

[–] kmartburrito@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

I think you mean the "biden crime family"

[–] TheRiskiestBiscuit@reddthat.com 3 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I mean… Have you read the Dune prequels?

[–] db2@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

have you read

🗿

[–] Womble@piefed.world 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Funnily enough, they were slop before slop was popular. With Herbert's son cranking out an endless quantity of vapid simulacra of his fathers work for profit.

[–] TheRiskiestBiscuit@reddthat.com 1 points 2 weeks ago

Can’t disagree.

[–] captain_solanum@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Did anyone here actually read the article? I think it was pretty reasonable and am worried that the future of LLMs/AI will be determined largely by people who hold very, very different fundamental values than me regarding compassion and equity. I think part of my worry comes from people (often on the left and from the US, but I am biased in what parts of the internet I frequent) dismissing AI as a fad which will soon go away and which will certainly not have a large impact on the world for a long while.

[–] Womble@piefed.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

Sadly you cant expect large comms on Lemmy to do anything that reflexivly up/down vote anything negative/positive about AI, no matter how insightful or nuanced. It's pretty ironic for this article in particular given that the same refusal to engage is its topic.

[–] Ilixtze@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago

Fuck AI, there is nothing there to miss.

[–] webkitten@piefed.social 1 points 2 weeks ago

I wouldn't say I'm missing it

[+] Iconoclast@feddit.uk -8 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I've yet to meet a single anti-AI person in real life. I'm starting to think it's just a loud online minority that again makes the rest of the people on the left not daring to even admit to using it.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 12 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

That's called the black swan fallacy. "I've never personally seen it, therefore it's not real." That just sounds like cope and projection. You feel like this "loud minority" is preventing you from being so open about your love of AI, and so you pretend like everyone is secretly on your side.

If you were to get specific, people are generally receptive to very specific use cases, like tailor-made models for assisting medical diagnosis or security analysis of code. What people almost universally hate is the slop produced by generative AI, particularly in creative niches where what these machines produce isn't art but a pale shade of it. Yet, these billionaires keep trying to shove GenAI down everyone's throats at every turn, all the while ruining hobbies (see the RAM/SSD supply chain), livelihoods, health, rights (see Palantir; see who owns these tools), and the planet.

So yeah, if you don't have a visceral reaction to someone shilling AI, I don't believe you're really that far left. The tools that broadly exist are not the tools of nor for the befit of the people.

[–] Iconoclast@feddit.uk -3 points 2 weeks ago

I haven't claimed it isn't real. I haven't claimed it's stopping me from talking about it. I haven't said I love AI. I'm not pretending people are on my side and I haven't claimed to be on the left politically.

[–] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

Funny, I know just as many anti-AI people in real life as very pro-AI people. It's almost like there are all kinds of people in the world, and not everyone knows all of them.

[–] magic_smoke@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 2 weeks ago

I know several people just from work alone.

I work in enterprise IT for context.

[+] cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com -17 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The left? The right?

Progressiveness is defined by embracing change, sometimes to the fault of change for the sake of change. Conservatism is defined by embracing tradition, sometimes to the fault of rejecting change that benefits society.

However, some artists are politically left, and they don't like AI because they say it steals their work.

I do agree those who take a moral stand against AI are putting themselves at a disadvantage to those who use it. Not everybody who is opposed to AI is in a position that would be improved with AI use, however. So there is that.

In American politics, I see the president doing dumb shit with AI (such as making himself appear as Jesus and healing Jeffrey Epstein) but we all know it's AI and most people don't take it seriously at all.

[–] DomeGuy@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

The progressive and conservative "movements" in the USA were named the same way Greenland was. By picking a word that would help appeal to low information folk.

Neither has any actual adherence to either change or tradition for the sake of such.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 1 points 2 weeks ago

This is a great point. They're vague concepts, used as shorthand to communicate someone's philosophies in very broad strokes. They're not philosophies or even true political movements in and of themselves.

[–] undrwater@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

I always say; the terms aren't useful in discussion or debate, but they're great in a fight!