this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2024
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Recommendation for webcam that doesn't push its software? (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 9 months ago by LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/privacyguides@lemmy.one
35 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Hi, I'm on Windows 10 at home and Windows 11 at work. I'm going to migrate to Linux for my next PC (might eventually do it on this one, though I've currently done so many tweaks that I intend to keep this for gaming for now). Our two laptops and mini-PC already run Linux Mint, but I digress... (I just don't want anyone to think I'm totally unaware of the problems with Windows and Microsoft.)

My uses for a webcam are:

  • Streaming with friends (sharing games and video feed, playing Jackbox games, chatting, etc.)

  • Playing Magic the Gathering via Spelltable (so it needs to be able to be positioned facing my playmat and good enough quality to detect the cards)

  • Video call with family and friends

  • Occasional use for presenting professional webinars (during occasions when I have to work from home)

  • Occasionally pre-recording work-related content that will be publicly viewable

  • Use with OBS virtual camera

At work, I use a Logitech camera that my employer provided me with OBS software. It's an older model, but I'm not sure of model number or anything off the top of my head. It's not the best, and I'd like something a bit better at home.

At home, I was using a similar Logitech camera, but a year ago I decided to upgrade and purchased the Razer Kiyo Pro. What a mistake! Every time this camera gets plugged in, it prompts me to install Razer Synapse. It even puts the installer directly on my hard drive without my permission!

I've saved up a bit, and I'd like to try again with a different camera, one that doesn't push its proprietary software on me. I was considering Logitech, but iirc Logi's newer models also do the same thing. Or is this wrong?

Either way, I'd be so grateful if someone could recommend a reasonably high quality budget camera in the ~$100 range. I could go up to maybe $125, but after that it would start to really hurt.

I've done a lot of searching myself, but it turns out it's pretty hard to find a camera that doesn't either require or constantly push its proprietary software, and apparently some people [checks notes] like the proprietary software being shoved at them???

Anyway, I'd be so thankful if you could help. This community helped me so much before when I needed a modem and router to escape the clutches of my IP, so I thought maybe someone would have some advice.

all 38 comments
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[–] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 19 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I think most of the basic Logitech webcams should just work without any other software.

Not surprised about Razer, their stuff is awful.

[–] RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I'm using a Logitech c920 at home and a brio 500 (for 4k) at work. Both support Linux and windows with no added software.

[–] mranderson17@infosec.pub 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

This is.... exactly my setup too. Works great. The brio is a tiny bit weird in that it appears as two independent video devices in Linux, but choosing the right one is all that's necessary and it works fine.

[–] MinFapper@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Is the other video device the infrared camera?

[–] mranderson17@infosec.pub 1 points 6 days ago

Yeah I think it probably is. Streaming output from it causes the infrared LED to flash rapidly and the image isn't coming from the main lens, it's the smaller lens right next to it.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Those both look like options I can afford! I think one of my playgroup said he uses the c920.

These cameras don't prompt you to install an app each time you reconnect them?

[–] RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I think I got prompted once for the Logitech mouse, and said no thanks. That's been it.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 9 months ago

That's not so bad then. My Razer literally launches the installer every time it's reconnected.

Every. Time.

[–] chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Android 14 now allow users to use their smartphones as webcam natively

[–] WeAreAllOne@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Wait what? How?

[–] chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 9 months ago

GpapheneOS updated to Android 14

1000089898

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 9 months ago

I just considered it, but I don't think this would be ideal for my use case, although it is useful information.

[–] subignition@kbin.social 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I got this super cheap camera off Amazon a while ago, it doesn't have software or any special drivers. You just plug it in and Windows sees it as a generic video device.

https://www.amazon.com/d/B08VJ25PL1

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 9 months ago

Thank you! This is exactly like what I was asking for! Thanks!

[–] aksdb@feddit.de 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Do you have an old SmartPhone lying around? Or could you put aside your SmartPhone during those usage scenarios? Then grab DroidCam (or rather DroidCam OBS, if you mainly need it together with OBS) and you have a camera quality that can compete with dedicated cameras (not webcams). Almost all webcams suck hard in comparison.

[–] WeAreAllOne@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago

Those apps are full of trackers dude..

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Wouldn't I have to manually start the phone and launch the app each time I want to use it? Most of the time I use it with friends, it's one of those, "We're online, hop on if you're able" type scenarios, and I've been able to join in seconds, or a family member will text and want to video call. With the phone, I'd have to make sure it's perpetually charged or plugged in.

It's not a bad idea for certain use cases, but I think in my case I'd be better off with a dedicated computer peripheral.

[–] aksdb@feddit.de 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

True, you will need 10 to 20 seconds setup each time. But the video quality is really impressive. And another upside: you can be damn sure that no one watches you without you knowing, because you have to setup the cam each time and it doesn't just sit there. But I guess that's only a minor advantage.

I put up a specific mount to quickly put the smartphone in place and have a dedicated charger cable right beside it I just need to attach real quick. If I used my iPhone, I could probably make use of the MagSafe mechanism to mount and charge in one go. (I think there are also MagSafe compatible cases for other phones, so that might be something to think about in general.)

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

you can be damn sure that no one watches you without you knowing,

I'm in the habit of keeping the lens completely covered when not in use, so this is really not a problem for me.

I can look at some mounts. That's another thing that's hard to find -- I've purchased two for my bicycle in the past that both broke within a matter of months, and it's hard to find anything that conforms well to my workspace. For positioning my camera, I went through three mounts before finding one that works to point down at my playmat without being too close or too far away, and even the one I ended up with is less than ideal. I thought the gooseneck ones would be good, but the one I tried was actually the worst of all at keeping my camera in position.

[–] aksdb@feddit.de 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I bought one of those arms you can attach to the desk and then position as necessary. They have a standard ISO mount you can use for cams, microphones, etc.. I also attached my normal webcam to it before. No I have a smartphone mount (this one, to be precise) on it.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

What is the normal webcam you use? I really think a normal webcam would be best for me vs. using an old phone. There must be a camera that's just plug and play that doesn't do what this Razer does.

[–] aksdb@feddit.de 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It was a Logitech C922. It's a piece of shit though. A bit less than other webcams I had, but I can't even properly key out my greenscreen if the lighting in the room is not 100% perfect. With the smartphone cam it works even with completly shitty lighting.

The only webcam I would have somewhat hope in would be the Obsbot Tiny 2, but €350 is too much for something I can solve with an old smartphone. (Also I don't need 70% of the features of the obsbot tiny; I mainly want a good sensor and image processing.)

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Ok, ok! I'll give the smartphone a whirl. I have nothing to lose.

I've got an old Samsung S8+ that I use as an mp3 player sometimes when I don't want to be reachable by phone. I can try it, and if it works for me, I'll look into a good mount. Maybe I'll be able to find one that works with my existing scissor arm I've been using for my webcam.

Does it seem to you that hardware has gotten worse the past 5 years? I feel like there are fewer decent options now than we had in the past. Enshittification hits hardware too, I suppose.

[–] aksdb@feddit.de 2 points 9 months ago

I don't think it got worse. At least in regards to webcams. It looks more like that for many years they essentially re-used the same sensors in different cams and didn't really evolve. Which always seemed weird, given that smartphone with fantastic sensors have been around for ages now - with lenses which are likely even smaller than what a webcam would be able to allow. Only the relatively recent home office trend has brought some change. But so far it still doesn't look too good.

[–] fhqwgads@possumpat.io 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

If you already have a camera with HDMI output sitting around a capture card can be a great way to get really good image quality for not much money. If 720p is enough I've actually had really good success with these incredibly cheap ones: https://youtu.be/daS5RHVAl2U - I've even seen them at places like Walmart and Target under the Vivitar brand so they're readily available.

If you don't look around locally for used Sony cameras. Because 1080p is only 2 mega pixels and many of the nicer old Sony cameras have clean HDMI output you can get kind of amazing image quality for very cheap. Some newer model mirrorless cameras got updates to run as a webcam directly off the USB port but they're likely out of your budget and some require software. (Edit: make sure you check if the model you're looking at has clean HDMI out - some do, some don't, and some do with some tweaking. This site has a decent bit probably incomplete list: http://wasge.es/clean_output/ )

If you want a more traditional webcam and need autofocus something like the Logitech c920 family is probably your best bet but the constant revisions may have added a software install. Most cameras are including software since realistically they're all basically the same and most of the "features" are added in the software.

If you don't need autofocus, there are a number of companies taking Sony "security camera" sensors and slapping them in boxes with screw mount lenses. ELP and Mokose are examples but there are others. With enough light these generally look pretty dang good. If you pick one up and decide later to upgrade, it can probably live mounted up high just for playing magic, especially since there are a few 4k ones that will probably let you read the tiniest of text on the cards.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

capture card

Hmm I need to do some research. I'm not really sure what these are for or what they do, but I'll look into it, thanks.

Most cameras are including software since realistically they're all basically the same and most of the "features" are added in the software

Yes, I understand. It's always been this way, but then the way to do it is to either sell the software, or include instructions on how to retrieve it, not to automatically drop an installer on someone's PC the moment one connects the device. From my POV, I'm shopping for hardware. If I'm looking for software features, I can shop for those separately.

I've heard that Logitech does do the same thing Razer does now, but I've also heard they don't. It's frustrating not being able to find this information.

ELP and Mokose

I'll look into this as well. Seems like people have had focus issues though, based on reviews I saw.

You've given me some options. I'm sure there's some cheap brand out there somewhere that doesn't force the installer, but it's even hard to find facts about whether they do or don't.

[–] fhqwgads@possumpat.io 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

capture card

Hmm I need to do some research. I'm not really sure what these are for or what they do, but I'll look into it, thanks.

Sorry, probably should have explained. If you have a camera that has an HDMI or other video output they basically convert it to a USB camera.

I'll look into this as well. Seems like people have had focus issues though, based on reviews I saw.

Most of the models they put out don't have autofocus at all, you have to physically turn it to focus. Depending on exactly how your setup works that may or may not be viable - overhead cam like for playing magic probably doesn't move much, but for video conferences where you shift in your chair it might be weird if the room is a bit darker.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If you have a camera that has an HDMI or other video output they basically convert it to a USB camera.

I have an action cam (like a knockoff gopro) that has a pretty good image. So I could use that as a Webcam if I had one of those capture cards?

Also, I forgot to mention: It doesn't have to read all the text on a card, it just needs to be able to accurately detect which card it is, then Spelltable pulls up the card text from a database.

[–] fhqwgads@possumpat.io 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If it has an HDMI output without too much junk on it yes. Sometimes the HDMI output will have the same interface that's on the screen, sometimes it will be clean, and sometimes it shows the interface but you can shut it off so it doesn't matter. You can usually crop out the interface in OBS but you'll lose some resolution doing that. You should be able to plug it into a monitor or TV and check fairly easily.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago

I'll try it. If I can stream with this, I'll be so pleased. I've taken longboarding footage with this thing, and it always looks crystal clear.

I think I'm gonna look for the one at Walmart next time I'm there. This action cam even fits my existing mounting hardware so this will be perfect if I can get it working!

Thank you so much.

[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 2 points 9 months ago

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https://piped.video/daS5RHVAl2U

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

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