this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
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165
'No-water' hydropower turns England's hills into green and pleasant batteries (www.rechargenews.com)
submitted 2 years ago by bernieecclestoned@sh.itjust.works to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[–] echo64@lemmy.world 33 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm not gonna jump on board with this one immediately, there's a few things about it that aren't wowwing me.

  1. R-19 is their magical 'denser than water' fluid. They don't have to be so secretive and if they are going to be secretive then I'm gonna assume it's not good for us.
  2. it's only really so that you can get the same amount of power from half the height. they aren't selling it as "store twice as much energy", but rather "use in locations that have half as much height". The thing is that the UK has used this kind of power for decades, there are old coal mines and natural cave formations that have large water flows. the water is pumped to the top when you have an excess, and dropped to power during demand. This system seems far better in general, even without the mysterious R-19 fluid. We don't /not/ have height differences in the UK, we have lots.
[–] bernieecclestoned@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)
  1. It's Intellectual Property. Investors like IP so it can be licensed for royalties and bumps up the balance sheet. From their website I found this link

https://www.imeche.org/news/news-article/high-density-pumped-hydro-could-be-installed-on-thousands-of-small-hills

"RheEnergise said it invented the new high-density fluid, known as R-19. Chief executive Stephen Crosher told Professional Engineering that the liquid is a fine-milled suspended solid in water, with low viscosity and low abrasion characteristics. The base material is used in oral medication applications, in a similar way that chalk is used as a bulking agent for pills and tablets. He said the raw materials are common and available, including in the UK, and the fluid could either be manufactured on-site or at a depot. "

  1. Hydro is very geographically restricted, halving the height makes it less so.

I like the idea of using old coal mines, there's been pilot projects in Germany and Australia but I've never seen them amount to anything

[–] roguetrick@kbin.social 21 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

The base material is used in oral medication applications

Calcium carbonate. The density for a calcium carbonate suspension in water is right on the money for what they've stated. They're being so evasive because they haven't patened it and likely can't. They're treating it like a trade secret because they can't make it into IP.

Edit: yep, they use it in oil drilling, so they can't patent it https://glossary.slb.com/en/terms/c/calcium_carbonate

[–] ilikekeyboards@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Patenting chalk water solution is like patenting milk.

Oh look, I've made up a liquid consisting of suspended lipids, sugars, and proteins! Please detain these cows!

These corporations would try to patent any molecular arrangement that contains two oxygen atoms and call it a day and they'd fight a plant for it.

[–] InvertedParallax@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

2 oxygen atoms? Your product sounds awfully similar to my proprietary, patented, 1 oxygen, 2 hydrogen atoms compound.

I hope you have a good lawyer.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago

Well, dehydrogen-oxide has been proven to, in large enough quantities, be deadly to humans.

[–] calabast@lemm.ee 11 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Very cool. Do we know what the fluid is? Does it pose any health risks if it somehow leaks into the groundwater?

[–] Dasnap@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's just good ol' fashioned mercury.

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The article claims it's 2.5x as dense as water, which according to this density chart is probably bromine.

[–] roguetrick@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I actually bet it's just very very fine stonedust and water in suspension.

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm not sure which would be worse for the machinery

[–] roguetrick@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Supposedly it's exactly that, but stabilized by a polymer to keep it in suspension for up to 60 days without mixing. https://online.flippingbook.com/view/1025707592/10/#zoom=true

Edit: I've concluded it's likely calcium carbonate.

[–] roguetrick@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

They're saying it's minerals and a polymer. In that case even a leak into groundwater would just be leaking groundwater. (Depending on what the polymer is)

[–] bernieecclestoned@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 years ago

Our innovative fluid R-19 is environmentally benign and has been engineered to be non-reactive and non-corrosive.

https://www.rheenergise.com/

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 years ago

This is so heartening. Do things smarter and healthier. What a great idea.

[–] nalyd@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Wasn't there a Tom Scott video about this concept a while ago? I can't find it atm but I'm sure I've seen this one already

[–] j_overgrens@feddit.nl 2 points 2 years ago

Let me know if you find it!

[–] EarJava@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I believe thunderfoot talks about a similar concept in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxGQgAr4OCo

At 03:47

[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 1 points 2 years ago

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[–] timtoon@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago

Running on arbitrage of energy prices gives new meaning to 'buy the dip'.