this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2023
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Hello everyone, I’ll try to keep this short as I know there’s been a lot going on over the last few days. When we made our announcement last week, we intended to get Reddit's attention on a subject that our team found extremely concerning. /r/Videos is joining a larger coordinated protest and signing an open letter to the admins found here.

The announcement was of exceedingly high API prices which we all know was to intentionally kill 3rd party applications on reddit (Apollo, Reddit is Fun, Boost, Relay, etc.) Since that post several things have become clear; Reddit is not willing to listen to its users or the mod teams from many of its largest communities on this matter. Yesterday all major third-party Reddit apps announced that they would be shutting down on the 30th of June due to these changes. There were no negotiations and Reddit refused to extend the deadlines. The rug was pulled out from under them and by extension all of the users who rely on those tools to use reddit.

In addition to this, the AMA hosted by Steve Huffman, CEO of Reddit, which was intended to alleviate concerns held by many users about these issues, was nothing short of a collage of inappropriate responses. There are many things to take away from this AMA but here are the key points. Most disappointingly it appears that Reddit outright misconstrued the actions of Apollo's creator /u/iamthatis by saying that he threatened Reddit and leaked private phone calls, something done only to clear his name of another accusation.

So what’s happening? The TL;DR? Effective tomorrow (6/11/2023), /r/Videos will be restricting posting capabilities. Anything posted before the cut off date will likely be the final front page of our community before we go private indefinitely. In the unlikely scenario that Reddit ownership has a sudden change of heart and capitulates on their decisions we will reopen, but until that happens /r/Videos will stay closed. Many other communities have come to similar decisions and we support those who have decided to take a stand.

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[–] bangover@beehaw.org 111 points 1 year ago (3 children)

That raises the stakes significantly, fully support the decision. It will also make any migration to Lemmy more abrupt, hopefully the instances can handle it.

[–] Clbull@beehaw.org 41 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I can see a lot of people moving to Lemmy, just because the other alternative that's popping off (Tildes) is a far more serious discussion-driven site.

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 32 points 1 year ago (20 children)

Yeah from what I've seen, migrating to tildes is a bit like migrating to hackernews. In theory it's a Reddit clone, but the purpose of the site is so different from how Reddit has been used that it's not really a substitute.

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[–] HeartyBeast@kbin.social 26 points 1 year ago (16 children)

Kbin is interesting too. I'm using it now. Nice UI and federates with Lemmy, of course

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[–] socsa@lemmy.ml 24 points 1 year ago

I definitely get the sense that spez is just going to nuke these mods until they get compliant ones in there. It's going to end up being a bloodbath, and I think it perfectly fits with his weird fantasy of being a post-collapse tyrant.

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[–] imkmiaw@lemmy.fmhy.ml 78 points 1 year ago (13 children)

I honestly think more subs need to do an indefinite shut down.

If it's only for 48 hours Reddit can just wait it out, and if not a lot of subs join in on the indefinite shut down they can just replace the mods for new ones.

However, in my opinion, the buggest change will come June 30th when 3rd party apps shut down since that's when users will actualy stop using Reddit.

Let's hope it's enough users to make a change. I myself will be deleting everything and my account on June 30th. Let's hope something changes.

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[–] mobyduck648@beehaw.org 75 points 1 year ago

Good on the mod team of /r/videos! It must have been a difficult decision to walk away from a 26M+ sized community but I think it's definitely better to scuttle the ship and go down with it than capitulate at this point. This is a bold choice that's left Reddit between a rock and a hard place.

[–] HandOfKarma@kbin.social 65 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is huge news! Hopefully other gigantic subreddits will follow suit.

[–] sup@lemmy.ca 35 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Yup this is massive and it's not a niche subreddit. That means, most likely, more will follow. Sure, reddit will probably force it back online with new mods or whatever, but THIS is how you make a statement. Hat's off r/videos!

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[–] SkullHex2@lemmy.ml 63 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Holy shit, that's pretty big. I think r/Videos is in the top 5% by size, and I was sure some Reddit admins were moderating it as well

[–] phi1997@kbin.social 53 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I'm sure they'll force it to reopen with a new, handpicked mod team that won't do nearly as good of a job.

[–] Cube6392@beehaw.org 34 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Force their hand. Reddit needs to learn their actions have consequences. They need to experience firsthand how much higher their operating cost will be if they can no longer rely on free labor for their site to be engaging. They need to learn that their goal of moving to a more ad supported model won't work if they don't have ads to show people.

Also on reflection. I don't think I once saw an ad on Reddit I found interesting or tempting. I get worthwhile ads on Instagram all the time. Maybe reddit needs to reevaluate their marketing departments insights into their userbase instead of rolling out a paid API scheme

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[–] Hyperz@beehaw.org 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I can't think of a better way to put more gasoline on the fire. If it happens I hope the users revolt and completely shit up any sub where they pull this stunt. Let's see how long those new mods last then, and how many advertisers they lose.

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[–] anthoniix@beehaw.org 54 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Burn everthing down and rebuild in the fediverse. FUCK these corporations.

[–] Jdreben@beehaw.org 25 points 1 year ago

This is the way

[–] bdonvr@lemmy.rogers-net.com 53 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I still think the admin team will forcefully takeover and reopen the big subs, but I think that'll be like pouring gasoline on that dumpster fire.

[–] satouru@beehaw.org 38 points 1 year ago (15 children)

I’m pretty sure that’s what’s going to happen too.

They’ll kick dissident mods out, install their own, and just reopen the subs like nothing happened. There’s precedent of that happening I believe (although for much more reasonable reasons, like mods going rogue for stupid or anti-free speech stuff).

And it’s going to be an absolute shitshow. I feel sad, but I also kind of love it. You reap what you sow, I guess.

[–] aaronbieber@kbin.social 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

If they force a reopen, we should all get ready to post Never Gonna Give You Up music videos all day long.

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[–] howdy@thesimplecorner.org 50 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Absolutely incredible to see. Very happy that one of biggest subs called reddits bluff. Which I believe is where we are. Reddit thinks the users that actually care about 3rd party apps will move on at this point and reddit will have the everyone else switch to their apps with no more of a thought than swiping up to the next tik tok video. I'm deleting my last account on Reddit now in solidarity. Lemmy and the fediverse feels nice. I am in near complete control of my data running my own instance while still being able to interact with literally everyone I want and don't want. My ublock isn't blocking a single thing, no trackers, no more being a commodity. Already fine communities are springing up with thoughtful moderation, rules and inclusivity.

I am super excited about what is happening here.

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[–] kherge@beehaw.org 46 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I appreciate the effort, but since this is one of the main subreddits the Reddit admins will simply purge these subreddits of their mods, install new ones, and reopen it (they’ve already done something like this before).

The real question is how well will the sub operate then? I imagine not very well since all of the experienced mods and their tools are gone.

[–] Lycan@beehaw.org 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This was my immediate reaction too. Reddit will likely replace the current moderator team of r/videos and reopen. Nonetheless I can appreciate and respect the gesture/message.

[–] LimitedBrain@beehaw.org 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This is easy to do for one subreddit. And it's a large one. Would easily need 10+ mods to keep it running. But if a few of these large subreddits revolt, I don't think reddit can simply replace them all.

Not only that but I think replacing the entire mod team would cause a revolt anyways. Tensions are extremely high

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[–] terribleplan@lemmy.nrd.li 45 points 1 year ago (4 children)

indefinitely != permanently

[–] fernandofig@beehaw.org 26 points 1 year ago

It's not pedantic. There IS a difference, and it's relevant in this case.

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[–] runarskoll@beehaw.org 43 points 1 year ago (2 children)

For me it's a double sided problem. Even if reddit solves the moderation tools problem which user the api (and they will because those are the tools of the free labor they explore) there will be still the problem with the user experience. Even if subreddits reopen I will never use the official reddit app, the same way I refuse to use the official twitter app since apps like Falcon Pro, Flamingo or Talon stopped working.

Reddit CEO can bargain the deal he wants that I don't care anymore. For me reddit is now only a repository where I will continue to search specific information. It is no more a place where I want to participate in online communities.

[–] heartburn@beehaw.org 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That was my line of thought as well, however...

Reddit will stop being a good information repo very quickly as users ~~who actually know what they're talking about~~ leave and the information stops being up to date. The trend of adding "reddit" to every google search will die out soon.

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[–] blitzen@lemmy.ca 41 points 1 year ago

I’d like to see the big subs each create an official mastodon account for the sole purpose of announcing trustworthy information. One the subs come back up, especially if it’s earlier than expected, how will we know if they were taken over by the admins?

[–] Crigz@kbin.social 39 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm already feeling at home on kbin. Really liking this fediverse stuff! I don't think I'm going to miss reddit at all.

[–] alternativeninja@lemmy.sdf.org 47 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I think the neat thing is while you're on KBin, I'm on Lemmy and we can still interact. I just wish it was easer to understand for the non tech savvy people. It's going to make adoption by the mainstream hard

[–] knova@links.dartboard.social 23 points 1 year ago

If all of these Reddit-type services used activity pub, it wouldn’t matter where people went. Discovery might still be a challenge but interoperability wouldn’t

[–] sup@lemmy.ca 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is my first time seeing a kbin and a Lemmy user interact with each other. I did conceptually understand the fediverse, but this actually puts it into perspective. That's amazing!

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[–] smallerdemon@lemmy.ml 36 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Ultimately here's what's going to happen: These closed communities will be forcefully reopened by Reddit admins, the mods will be removed and replaced with toadies that will follow the new rules, and it will inevitably descend into exactly what Twitter is descending into: a right-wing propaganda outlet with racists, anti-Semitic, misogynistic, homophobic content dominating the forums that took a stand.

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[–] laxe@lemmy.ca 34 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I commend the shutdown but if things get out of hand reddit admins will take over the popular subs. They won’t let a prime sub get shut down by mods.

[–] saigot@lemmy.ca 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think there may not be enough competent volunteer mods to take it over. They could replace them with paid reddit employees like other big platforms but that's gonna cost them more than the 20mil a year they apparently think 3rd party apps are costing them.

[–] laxe@lemmy.ca 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

At this point in time, reddit cares about numbers, not competency. It doesn’t matter If a sub (or the entire site) degrades over time, as long as IPO numbers are maximized so they can cash in.

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[–] Moneymunkie@beehaw.org 34 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Good god I knew it wasn't going to go well but I didn't think they'd crash and burn it THIS bad.

The bar was on the floor and they still managed to somehow clip underneath it through the floor, end up in some backrooms-esque dimension only to trip on a banana peel and land face first in a pie.

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[–] LemmyAtem@beehaw.org 34 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Thanks for grabbing the text, that's very helpful. Good for /r/videos, way to send a strong message.

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[–] Aninjanameddaryll@sopuli.xyz 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I took r/edc restricted yesterday, though we are/were tiny. While I still plan to find replacement mods from within the community after reddit goes full dipshit, I'm done ring their work for free, with shit tools, next to zero support, and (worse, imo) taking a lot of flak from admins because of bullshit unrelated to moderation.

I dunno if lemmy is going to become the reddit replacement or not, but I'm done with giving reddit anything at all. Overwrote and deleted everything from my author account that had some decent amount of fiction, and my personal account that had a lot of real stories from my life. That ain't much, but since I've seen my stuff being read on YouTube, and reposted by the copy/paste bots, it's something I guess.

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[–] Senseibull@lemmy.ml 29 points 1 year ago
[–] polaroid@beehaw.org 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Tsk tsk, reddit...

Man, why does everything I like have to go to hell?

[–] AllBetsAreOff@beehaw.org 26 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Man it's just so wild to watch what's going on over there right now. Even when subreddits come back after a couple days it may not matter if bot-assisted becomes impossible over there in the long run.

If reddit backs off enough to save the accessibility and moderation issues, I hope enough people still leave to help create a strong alternate ecosystem.

If alternatives like this site had existed through previous years, I don't think Reddit could have survived a lot of its previous mistakes.

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[–] worfamerryman@beehaw.org 24 points 1 year ago (8 children)

What other subs are going private inefinitely?

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[–] jack@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I think any and all subreddits should go this way.

Reddit is only popular because of the users. We create the content. Yes, a lot of posts on the website are external links but all discussions are generated and concluded by us, the users.

Shutting subs down for 1-2 days and going back to normal is not going to have much of an impact. It's akin to a server blip. If subs shut down indefinitely then reddit has a real problem. 'Normal' users will start to take notice, whereas they currently might not be paying much attention. These subs should go the other route. Shut down and promote alternatives (such as lemmy!) to divert traffic away from reddit.

Pigboy Spez talked about not being profitable. No shit, you dick. This is how you become even less profitable, by pissing off the entire user base.

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