OpenStars

WHAT!? I am genuinely curious why you think this?

For one thing PieFed was only centralized for a bit there at its start, whereas now there are already numerous piefed instances. It is true that piefed.social is still the #1 instance (much as lemmy.world had 80% of the Lemmy userbase at some point - but you still remain there even now so that does not seem to bother you?), but now piefed.blahaj.zone (not even 3 months old yet!!!!!), and piefed.world each have >100 active users, and piefed.ca, feddit.online, piefed.zip, quokk.au, piefed.au, etc. each have multiple tens of users.

More to the point, PieFed is FOSS. You could download the code and have your own personal instance spun up by the end of the day tomorrow.

I am guessing that you mean that the opinions of a single dev (Rimu) have an exagerated effect on the development of the code - which was definitely true in the past, but he also listens to feedback, apologies when he is wrong, and is amenable to going in other directions when the community wants that. The private voting debacle is one such example: I argued against it from the start, but he did it anyway, then abolished it and apologized to people when it received heavy criticism. You can read a really frank discussion about the topic where dbzer0 was considering whether to make a PieFed instance. Look especially at the comment starting with "I don’t trust Piefed at all - they’re far too eager to curate my experience, and they’ve reintroduced all of the reputation anti-features (plus more) that were part of what drove me away from Reddit and the absence of which is part of what I like about Lemmy and Mbin."

TLDR: it was a new project back then, and things were different. Also you might be unaware of the history of the development of Lemmy too, and of lemmy.world. These things are common, and nowhere close to be unique to PieFed. BlueSky on the other hand is corporate and so WILL be enshittified, eventually. PieFed on the other hand is just a better Lemmy :-).

What harms people is not the lack of knowledge but unwillingness to learn.

That said, there is only so much attention span to go around:-).

I believe that is more valid for Mastodon instances than for Lemmy ones.

Except that you are still correct in the operational sense that most will not bother. See e.g. the migration to BlueSky rather than Mastodon.

PieFed really might make for a qualitative shift though, in offering so many options such as categories of communities (akin to multi-Reddits), and polling, and flairs (both user and post) that Reddit users were used to and it makes them feel really like they are "slumming it" coming over to Lemmy that lacks all of that. The categories of communities and user-customizable and shareable feeds in particular really help with "content discovery", as too does PieFed's wizard that walks a first-time user through the process of setting up and joining what the user indicates that they are interested in.

In contrast, Lemmy users are supposed to go... (somewhere? but where? where are these "somewhere"s ever mentioned? on a side-bar somewhere? extremely rarely I would believe they might be, but the vast majority of the time usually not) to find the content that they want to see. Often they end up browsing All rather than Subscribed, and get so frustrated with that that they simply leave Lemmy altogether, and then report their complaints over in r/RedditAlternatives. PieFed solved that particular problem though, as well as several others, so at this point I think any discussion about "the learning curve" needs to be split into one for Lemmy, where it really does remain too complicated for the average Reddit non-technical normie, vs. PieFed where it does not anymore.

And I need to be careful or else this will turn into a HUGE tangent, but also the political extremism and bOtH sIdEs SaMe-ism on "Lemmy" is an enormous turn-off for people as well. Yes they can block each troll on an individual basis, or the same with communities, no they can't TRULY block an entire instance (that horribly mis-named function would have been better termed a "community muting" rather than "instance blocking", which still allows comments from users on that instance to appear everywhere else, plus able to reply and even trigger notifications, etc. - IT IS NOT A BLOCK). Anyway, how this relates is that mainstream non-technical normies just get overwhelmed, and don't enjoy the political extremism having to be an opt-out rather than opt-in feature, with most of the ways presented by the software to opt-out not TRULY opting "out" rather than merely claiming to do so. In contrast, one of the first things that PieFed does is to set up a block-list of keywords, offering the options All, None, and even a third one Some to allow the content at a lower frequency. I have never put any words into it... but I appreciate that the feature exists, for the sake of those who want / need it to be able to enjoy their social media of choice.

I predict that for all these reasons plus a few others, Lemmy will continue to die off. The die-hard userbase seems not to care actually, even being oddly proud of this? While PieFed - which just increased its userbase +400% - will continue to grow, and maybe PieFed will actually be the thing that captures more of the Reddit users. Lemmy certainly will not be, nor Mbin, and I cannot say for certain that PieFed will, just that it seems to me to be the only thing that possibly could (Sublinks seems dead in the water atm, due to the primary - only? - dev having a baby).

Many of us stopped actually "engaging" on Reddit long before we finally left it - the amount of trolls just waiting to pounce on anything at all that was said just got too damn high!

There are (so MANY!) trolls here too, but you can block them all and then breathe an enormous sigh of relief and finally enjoy the rest - I am saying that here that is at least possible, whereas on Reddit it just simply was not.

Unless they went to PieFed - which many did - and then it would look like a net decrease on those charts for Lemmy.

Mbin has <1k monthly active users. Kbin has <100 total, and if you dig deeper, only one server (in Poland) self-reports as using Kbin.

No PieFed is not included in "Lemmy" in this software b/c it looks at the software that the instance reports as using.

Even Lemmy is not in the millions, its peak was ~55k MAUs somewhere in Spring of 2024. Well, the "posts" counts could be in the millions (according to the Lemmy stats page it was 12.2 million a couple months ago), but those stats can be fairly misleading, so I typically only ever go by monthly active users that seems verifiably closer to what people actually see happening. e.g. so very MANY people have alt accounts all across the Fediverse so the total number of accounts is highly misleading, but the number of "active" ones seems more reliable? (even then it could be an over-counting, especially if bots are active and being counted as well)

40k MAUs is barely even a highly active sub over on Reddit.

Even Mastodon only reports ~700k MAUs, and falling, though at its peak it was closer to 2 million. They really dropped the ball on making the software easier to use - unlike Lemmy (and Mbin and PieFed), each Mastodon instance does NOT show posts from other Mastodon instances, by default - or at least that was true for an exceedingly long time though I thought it was going to change this summer iirc? Maybe that change only affected "searching" for posts though? I don't use Mastodon so don't really care - but I understand why people prefer BlueSky, b/c for them centralization is the point, if that is what it takes to make the software actually work.

A LOT of the criticisms that people on Reddit have about Lemmy actually pertain to Mastodon rather than Lemmy in particular.

The entire federated concept really was not ready for mainstream deployment, at the time of the Rexodus. We here are those with the "early adopter" mindset, which is very much different than the mainstream normie one.

Lemmy, Mbin, and PieFed - they are all "good", but yeah, me too :-P

I just mentioned this in another comment but I'll add it here so you can see it more easily:

25-fold iirc, b/c on the one hand it uses a LOT less data per post, plus it shows 5x more posts by default, so less need to paginate and such.

Here is a post describing that in detail: Comparing network utilization of Lemmy, Kbin and PieFed

25-fold iirc, b/c on the one hand it uses a LOT less data per post, plus it shows 5x more posts by default, so less need to paginate and such.

Here is a post describing that in detail: Comparing network utilization of Lemmy, Kbin and PieFed

So Piefed sends me a PM when actions have been taken against my account/content?

Honestly I do not know - Notifications on PieFed, along with searching, are both features that are still a bit wonky and behind everything else. Side-note: you will legit want to keep your old Lemmy account, and use it especially for searching for content, and also if you choose piefed.social whenever that goes down for upgrades, which it does far more often than a normal instance (it literally says that btw, it deploys new features sooner than other instances so it is the "test bed" to try them out:-D but if that bothers you then use one of the other ones like piefed.zip, piefed.world, etc.).

So that one may be a bad example for me to use... but on the other hand, Lemmy has been out for YEARS and that feature requested for YEARS, whereas PieFed is still being built and new features are added WEEKLY. So I would expect to see that feature "soon" on PieFed, whereas on Lemmy I would expect to see it "never" (b/c of the authoritarian mindset precluding them even wanting to do it). Just like so many other of the continually growing set of features offered by PieFed.

Not to get too deep into the tankie bashing, but nevertheless it does seem worth pointing out that the philosophies of the Lemmy devs have gotten them into some financial trouble, as people do not want to interact with them, e.g. to first learn the super-difficult (even compared to C++!!) Rust coding language and then try to contribute code. In contrast, pretty much every programmer already knows Python and so a lot of people can - and do - contribute to PieFed.

TLDR: PieFed is so much newer than Lemmy and honestly it is a bit behind in some ways, but even so PieFed is already running circles around Lemmy in not only the pace of development but also the raw set of features already developed.

And if I can add: even Reddit stopped adding features YEARS ago, unless you count things like those Doge coins that generate profit for the company but do not add anything new to the user-base. To see a thread-based forum platform actively adding brand-new features... damn it is so refreshing! (and yes Lemmy does that too, but on the scale of YEARS rather than, again, mere WEEKS)

I don't rightly know but... to a first degree of approximation, if both are fully compliant with the ActivityPub protocol then why would it? (they are not I would guess, but that is a more nuanced take than I have knowledge of:-D)