ToastedPlanet

Don't be fooled! That unmarked truck was a Decepticon! They are an invasive species that destabilizes the natural order of the Interstate Highway System depriving automobiles of their automeals.

I know that. Read the comment section. There is a user arguing against shutting down the government on the basis of a third option that the user cannot give in any detail. We need to be pushing the Democrats for a shutdown because they will not do it on their own. The last thing we need is to give Democrats an out when we do not have a third option.

No shit. Look at what is being argued in this comment section. We need the Democrats to shutdown the government. A user is determined to push a third option instead that the user cannot list. The last thing we need is for people to assume there is a third option when we don't have one. edit: typos

The way to solve climate change is to stop carbon emissions. The trick is to convince everyone to do that. No one has written anything down that does that on its own or in aggregate so an LLM cannot regurgitate that answer.

Solving the climate crisis will inevitably involve the working class overthrowing the owner class, because we need power to change the systems of government and business responsible for pollution. The working class is the only class incentivized to fix the climate crisis, because the workers can't all fit in apocalypse bunkers the way the owner class can. And again no one wrote down the thing that will give all workers class consciousness so LLMs can't regurgitate that either.

The LLMs aren't AGI. So the theoretical abilities of AGIs and the consequences of creating AGIs aren't relevant. edit: typos

Open the image in a new tab and zoom in to at least 240%. It's fine.

This is your reminder that we are in a make a deal or shut down situation because of how the Constitution requires the Democrats to have a majority of votes to do anything. Which in theory is how things should work in a majority rule democracy. edit: typo

Without the shutdown Democrats wouldn't have any leverage right now. Which isn't great, but is better than nothing for fighting fascism. It would have been better if Democrats had been socialists from the get go and gotten rid of the debt ceiling when they had power but they weren't and they didn't.

If you have a third option please share it. And make sure you're getting fresh air in your building.

Again with the false dichotomy. I can be against allowing a shutdown and against appeasing the fascists at the same time.

No you cannot and still be providing a logically consistent argument. Those positions are mutually exclusive.

Those two are NOT the only options are pretending otherwise is playing into the hands of fascists and other demagogues such as Schumer.

There are no mechanisms in the Constitution for the minority party to enact meaningful change or to obstruct that do not involve shutting down the government.

What are the other options?

Some ABSOLUTELY do.

They are a tiny minority that does not include Trump.

Again, they’re not unanimous. The Freedumb Caucus and other factions always defect at first.

They defect in favor of a shutdown.

Again, tell that to the people who might survive if a third option is accomplished.

What third option?

If they can’t do anything while in the minority, why show up to work at all? Why do we keep paying them if they’re literally powerless and thus useless?

Exactly. Hence a government shutdown.

The answer is that they’re NOT anywhere near as powerless as you and they pretend. They have ways of subverting or at least delaying the whole absurd procedure if they’re willing to.

Yes. With a government shutdown.

Anyway, I’ve said what needs to be said and you’ve made it abundantly clear that you’re not going to understand it no matter how many times I repeat myself and/or rephrase things, so we’re done here. Have the day you deserve.

Open your windows. You may have carbon monoxide poisoning.

You're literally doing what you are accusing me of doing with all that nonsense I didn't quote. Like a Republican. It's a blatantly clear cut situation. If you have a third option to this situation speak up! Say what that third option is. That's how it's obvious you're the one arguing in bad faith here or have carbon monoxide poisoning. edit: typo

If you knew a third option you could have listed it!

Couldn’t agree more.

Couldn’t disagree more.

You're doing the Patrick Star and Man Ray meme to me right now.

Correct. There’s also no world where a government shutdown is a good thing.

There is in a world where a person says 'Absolutely' to:

The fascists are going to try to kill us all whether we stand up to them or not

Absolutely.

These are mutually exclusive positions given what we are discussing. Your argument at the same time acknowledging that the fascists present the same danger regardless of our level of resistance and yet arguing that there is some how more danger if we resist. You're argument contains a glaring logical fallacy and thus is not compelling in any capacity. Your argument is a logically invalid position for this discussion.

Does your room contain any windows?

Democrats have tools at their disposal to gum up the machine and sway public opinion until they find a way to avert a shutdown without greenlighting something even worse. Using those tools is one of the most important parts of their job.

Incorrect. Passing legislation in the US requires control of both houses of Congress and the executive branch or two-thirds of both houses of Congress. There are no other meaningful tools besides a government shutdown to gum up the works. And people are sick of performative action from the Democrats.

Full stop. You aren't making sense. So I'm left with either you're trolling me and the rest of us for fun or you're suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning. For the sake of giving you the benefit of the doubt and your health I'm going to assume it's the latter, so the carbon monoxide poisoning.

Because the parts of the government exempted just so happens to be the only parts that the fascists always want to fund.

So? The Democrats don't have the power to do anything about that so it isn't relevant.

kill even MORE people.

So you're ok with some people dying.

That’s what I’M asking!

No you're trying to justify killing a few of us now, so the rest of us can wait out fascism.

Yes and no: massive fundamental reform of the government into something befitting today’s society is needed to achieve that goal.

This is laughably unattainable with the current Congress. We'll need to flip the Supreme Court with multiple consecutive presidential elections to even be able to start taking swings at that. We're never getting there if Democrats vote for Republican spending cuts with each continuing resolution.

They HAVE done it. Several times. That’s why they came up with this whole farce to begin with.

Not in 2025 with this presidential administration and Congress. Which are the only ones that are relevant to this discussion.

Not necessarily, no. The Freedumb Caucus usually holds the whole thing hostage to make whatever abomination the leadership suggests even WORSE.

They definitely do. They could all not vote on a bill if their goal was a government shutdown. They have the majority in both houses. And Trump could veto any bill if he wanted. edit: typo

some don’t

Yeah, the majority that align with Trump on everything as often as humanly possible.

Whether the government shuts down or not

Then why not shut it down.

Because the parts of the government exempted just so happens to be the only parts that the fascists always want to fund.

Sounds like they've got everything they need either way. If they're so good at spinning why not shut it down. Because people are turning against them in town halls all across the country. They know there are limits to what even they can get away with. That's why they delayed portions of the 'Big Beautiful Bill' until after the midterms.

…are you new? 99% of the times that the Dem leadership ever uses what leverage they have effectively, it’s to benefit their owner donors, not regular people who need it the most.

What is going on here? I brought up that Schumer is never going to allow a government shutdown. You're trying to argue that we're risking lives by doing a shutdown when that's what you're arguing for by arguing against a shutdown. I'm surprised you don't like Schumer since he's doing exactly what you think is best. If I didn't know better I would say you were trolling. But I've never seen a troll hold mutually exclusive positions in their heads let alone post them in the same comment before. If you know Schumer is bad for not doing a shutdown why do you also think shutdowns are bad? Surely either Schumer is correct and at least somewhat good for opposing a shutdown or bad for opposing it.

Is the ventilation in your building okay? Carbon monoxide poisoning is no joke.

Yes.

A socialist government would be cool.

Which playing their game and shutting down the government doesn’t do. Never has, never will.

So what's all this stuff from you about not liking Schumer then? It boggles my mind that you can hold such opposing takes at the same time. Republicans do not want a shutdown. Otherwise they would have shutdown the government since they have the votes to do it. Therefore it is leverage.

Big Joni Ernst energy 🙄

Not standing up to the fascists with the government shutdown is going to get some people killed now and then all of us killed later.

Again, I suggested no such thing, nor would I ever.

You're doing it right now. It's not a strawman or a false dichotomy, Democrats have one lever to pull as the minority party and it's the government shutdown.

Right back at you, chief.

STOP IT. What the actual fuck is going on? Stop kissing fascist ass. The opportunity to stop these deaths was in the 2024 election. Did you think there was a way to passively resist fascism meaningfully without people dying? We either stand up and fight or don't. Either way the fascists try to kill us now or later. There isn't a point later when suddenly the fascists are gone without any form of meaningful, impactful, useful resistance. edit: typos