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I got arrested once before with a bunch of other people cause I went to my first protest. We were just protesting more fair wages and that the state become a union/ a non right to work state. I got they didn't read the miranda then because there was a shitload of us. But how come it is not illegal for them not to read it?
They only have to read it if they're going to question you as part of an investigation, and then only if they consider you a suspect or person of interest.
They don't have to read Miranda to witnesses, and any "spontaneous utterances" you make are evidence.
It's shut the fuck up Friday. There are five things you should ever say to police:
If the officer gives you an order to do something, do it. Even if you don't feel it's a lawful order. The time for you to fight back is in court, not by yourself against someone with authority, a fragile ego, and a gun.
Edit: The last one, you must state that you are exercising your right to remain silent. Failing to do that and just saying nothing can and will be considered "confrontational," and you will be handled as such.
To expand on your edited bit, use those words exactly. Don't use slang or anything else. Explicitly invoke your right to remain silent and leave it at that. The supreme court rules that police "misinterpreting" when a guy asked "for my lawyer, dawg" as "for my lawyer dog" (which you don't have a right to) as reasonable. They will attempt to ignore your rights if they can. Also, IIRC, speaking after invoking your right to remain silent means you are no longer invoking your right to remain silent, so if you speak then you should invoke it again.
This guy shuts the fuck up
Note that, outside America, the rules will be different. Even in Canada, rights are very different. Less beatings and shootings, but our Article 5 is nowhere near as powerful as the 5th amendment.
Absolutely. Your local laws and conditions may vary. I left US as the assumed context since I was also talking about Miranda, which is a US thing. (Other countries may have a similar process, but Miranda is specific to the US.)
This is the advice that's consistent with what I've heard from several different lawyers.
There are lawyers who specialize in cases like this (search DUI lawyers and civil rights lawyers). I'd call one. You don't want to be stuck with a spurious DWI on your record.
Man I'm pretty sure there's been at least one or two times where if I'd followed shut the fuck up Friday, I would've gotten a fine at least. Of course I do live in a different country (very important point I'd say. Cops here are fairly friendly when in a good mood and don't really get to shoot people).
There was one time when I got stopped because I didn't have inspection or insurance on my car as it had been sitting for a while. Got away with just having to renew insurance as I told them I was just going to my workshop to get the car fixed for inspection (slight lie, woops - think I was driving it to the family farm to store it there long-term as I had another car I was driving actively) and had forgotten to renew insurance since the car had been sitting with no insurance for a while. It's legal to drive your car to/from inspection and to/from a workshop for repairs without active inspection here.
Then another time when on that exact same car, IIRC the speedo didn't work properly (or maybe I was just in a mood to listen to the inline 5 purr) so I went what must've been about 65 km/h in a 50 zone at night and just told the cop that the speedo had just stopped working a few minutes ago. Car was about 25 years old at that point so entirely believable too. No fine or anything, got told to just go fix it and drive carefully in the meantime.
The common theme of course being that never have I been accused of doing anything that would get me prison time or something. It's been fairly tiny traffic offenses that they already got on video anyway (police cars have dash cameras after all), those fines don't cost a lot if you don't go to the court to argue. And it's not entirely impossible that I've been blessed with the gift of gab because while I'm nearly incapable of straight-up lying, I am very capable of bending the truth just right to make things sound better for me. For small, offenses, cops have discretion to let you go if you don't piss them off and to give you a fine if you play hardball.
I tend to agree with you, but I think it's important to note:
So in many cases, nothing you say or do will make a significant difference except if you say something they disagree with, it can make it worse. But sometimes, you can talk your way out of a ticket.
The problem is: Every cop is different, and you don't know who you're dealing with until you're already in it.
As a white cis male, my experiences with cops has been about half alright and half mildly shitty. I bet you your average person of color would have a higher shitty time on average.
And again, you don't know until it's too late. So it's all a risk.
Yeah, it's a stupid acronym, but it's what we got, suck it up and deal with it, or help fix thte system, or come up with a better one that takes off. Or you can waste time arguing about the acronym and not help, I guess. Up to you.
This still works in the US too but... And it's a big BUT! ...but it entirely depends on the cop, the mood they're in, and how their sex life is going. I've had times where I've been high as a kite and been given a warning or been driving 20 mph over the speed limit and got a warning.
I've also been on a bike and nearly hit by an off-duty cop, the cop was angered by this and chased me down the highway at bike speed (<15mph, uphill) while the road is posted to be 50mph. I called the police, fearing for my life, and when police arrived I spoke with them and they said I had nothing to great from this engaged motorist because they were also a cop. Then I was given an indictment (a court date) for public disturbance because the cop lied and said I, a trans person, called him the F slur. It was dismissed in the end (first amendment rights and all that) but I was punished for riding my bike along the bike path by being legally ordered to go to court and explain that I was terrified and had shouted at the crazy out of control person chasing me: "If you follow me I'm calling the cops!" The cop had no repercussions!
Anyway, my point is, you can get lucky either way but when your luck turns they hold all the cards and your only rights become what they decide you get.
Pretty similar to my experience in the US.
Generally, a 15km/h speeding won't even get you stopped. Once I got pulled over ostensibly for about that much over, but it was 2 in the morning on a weekend on a country road so I'm pretty sure the officer was just using the speed as a fishing expedition, and came up with nothing worth the paperwork over.
Another time got pulled over for ostensibly speeding, and when the officer asked if we knew how fast we were going, I started tapping on the screen to try to pull up what would have been dashcam footage, and the officer fairly quickly decided to leave us with a "you just be careful now".
Like you said, at no point did I get particularly pissy, on the first I was a teenager who had never been pulled before and was just being super deferential, and even with the dashcam I was genuinely checking if I had such a thing because it was a new car and I wondered if I could access the camera recording (I heard that in a crash it would have recorded something, but evidently without activating or crashing it, it wasn't there). But never said that I doubted him, just that I was going to see if I could see how fast I was going.
If the whole scenario is low stakes and the officer is not stressed, my experience has been like yours. Only time I personally witnessed a pissed off cop was when I got rear ended by someone going about 90kph when I was in a traffic jam and the officer was very pissed at the person ramming a stopped car.
Of course the challenge is that it might be high stakes without your knowledge.
Good advice, good comment.
Did they actually charge you? I’ve read that it’s a tactic to break up protests and stifle dissent. Arrest someone with no real intent to press charges. Then keep them in jail for however many days they legally can to scare the shit out of you and ruin your life
Then, “oh you didn’t get your Miranda rights read? I guess you’re free to go”
Miranda rights are only required during a custodial interrogation, which means you are in police custody (arrested or not free to leave), and the police are actively questioning or interrogating you. If the police arrest 50 people at a protest, put them in a van, process them at the precinct, and never ask them a single question about their conduct, the police never actually need to read them their rights.
Any self-incriminating statements you make before your rights are read to you generally cannot be used against you in court as primary evidence (this is the Exclusionary Rule). Note that that's as primary evidence, though. If you mention the kilogram of illicit substances hidden in your shoes before they Mirandize you they can't use that statement in court, but they sure can use that kilogram of illicit substances as physical evidence.
So other than the bare minimum of what the law says you have to say, always remember that it's Friday.
There was a supreme court ruling on this during Trump 1 I believe. They do not need to read rights any more.
I was wrong, Biden's term, not that it matters. https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/supreme-court-rejects-promise-miranda-rights
This guy was denied his rights and was ruled against. Constitution be damned. It doesn't change the golden rule of dealing with cops though: Do not engage in conversations with cops without a lawyer. They can ask you where you're going and some general questions about what's in your possession currently. Outside of this it is best to disengage and defer to your lawyer or public defender.
They have to read the Miranda Rights in order for the evidence to be admissible. This ruling removes the ability to sue the people who violated your constitutional rights. Because there is no fear of personal liability, entering inadmissible evidence into the court and using it for the trial has no safeguards other than the judge deciding to accept it or not.
I can't believe I didn't see this case, fuck the supreme court man.