this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2026
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First, you're falling for the trap of the mystery box. None of that is in or really even suggested by the movie itself - you're putting your own interpretation and expectations in to fill in the absence of any given by the door. It's exactly why Abrams uses it, and why it never pays off.
Second, being a fan of something doesn't make a director better. If anything, their previous connection is baggage that will need to be managed and avoided to move a forward. In the case of VII, it worked. It was a safe, comforting return to a long running franchise that could lead to something new. IX shows how that usually ends, though - clinging to the old patterns with little to no deviation, culminating in a disappointing outcome. If nothing else, the attempt of VIII to break off into something different is commendable. Personally I think the film is good and its successes get lost in the nitpicking and hysteria of diehard fans that won't ever be satisfied anyhow.
Agree to disagree. I don't begrudge VIII as a movie on it's own. In the theater I had an okay time and unlike the toxic fans I at least grew to appreciate things like Rose, but you can't consider VIII in a vacuum because it was never meant to be consumed that way. It's the center piece in a trilogy.
I would argue that the fact that these interpretations can be rendered from the movie alone, means that we aren't dealing with a true Abrams style mystery box, and that even if we were, the general speculation about them doesn't leave us scratching our heads wondering about a narrative direction for these characters.
It's not a polar bear on a tropical island. In the context of the Star Wars universe most of Abram's choices have implications.
Those Implications where ignored by Johnson. It's misguided to blame Abrams for trying to leave questions that mirror the original film. If VIII had built on any of it, at all, we likely wouldn't be having this discussion. We would be talking about how VIII took the threads of familiar from the previous movie and actually made it good.
It's not on Abrams for Johnson's narrative left turn. At release The Force Awakens was incredibly well received. It wasn't until after VIII dropped that people really started to tear into Abrams for not keeping narrative control, and deflecting the blame from Johnson onto Abrams.
I find that outrageous.
Any collaborative story teller worth their salt can draw the through lines for some of these characters and tropes. It's not on Abrams for choosing to leave the story about space wizards open ended on what is the opening note of a familiar trilogy. The worst thing you could say about the Force Awakens is that it plays too safe. Which, for an opening movie isn't a problem unless the rest of the trilogy sucks.
I don't think it would have been perfect if Abrams held the wheel for all three films. It's the nature of fandom to nitpick and complain, but it at least would have been consistent. This trilogy is a narrative mess and it got that way because of Johnson having no skill as a collaborative story teller and likely little love for Star Wars.
Johnson did to Star Wars what Abrams did to Star Trek.
It's not, though. That's my point. Barring Finn being force sensitive, nothing you mention is obvious or supported by anything except your own expectations.
Or if Abrams had the courage to follow through, we would have something that wraps up VII and VIII in something that wasn't such a cluster fuck. Or maybe it would have all been even worse either way. We won't ever know. Speculating "If it was better, I would have liked it" isn't proof of anything.
We can't blame Rian for "ignoring" plot hooks that weren't there. What vague questions were asked, he expanded on. For everything else, people were left to create their own expectations like yours that didn't line up with what he chose to do. There is no outcome that would have left any number of people satisfied that wasn't even more of a retread.
What an incredibly self-centered statement. To question and even deny someone's care for something just because it's not the way you want them to is just callous and cruel. Nobody is obligated to care the same way you do, and Rian obviously cares for the franchise and has said as much, even saying he'd come back for more despite the extreme reaction he's gotten so far. Nobody puts up with shit like that for something they don't care about deeply and that should be welcomed and encouraged. Accusations like yours won't keep a fandom or franchise healthy - it just pushes everyone reasonable away and leaves the bitter, angry leftovers that nobody wants to touch.
I really don't see it. I'll reflect on it.
Rian made a fun movie. He did not make a good middle trilogy movie. When taken as the center piece that it is, his choices mirror Abram's choices with Star Trek. That is, similar and familiar but lacking a deeper understanding of the property. The Star Trek movies are also mostly good. Understanding the deep nuance isn't needed to make a good movie in a franchise, but it does help inform structure. I flat out refuse to blame Abrams for Rian's movie. I've said way more on this than is needed and obviously we're not going to agree beyond the fact that the squeals are bad. And that's fine. I'm not an angry and bitter fan. I'm just profoundly disappointed. like many were.
but I am getting older and I understand that the way I want things to be isn't how they are. I just won't be silent about it in the spaces where we're supposed to have discussion.
random point of fact, I checked out these movies Rotten Tomatoes scores last night and it's interesting how well regarded they are. So either, there's corporate thumbs on the voting scales or the general public don't care as much about these complaints. Either way. My desire to be thorough in my thoughts may have painted me as one of those obsessive fans that rages at people online. That isn't me. Passionate, yes, but not so much so that I will lash out at people for having different opinions. - maybe my blood sugar is just better balanced atm.