this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
184 points (88.0% liked)
Technology
59427 readers
2839 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
That's great. Build it. Until this hits the showroom floor, I don't care. Electric cars have been consistently 10 years away for the past like 30 or 40 years. For every other automaker, electric cars are now here today. Except Toyota, where they are still 10 years away. And for me, The electric car isn't 10 years away, it's parked in my driveway. So as far as I'm concerned, this is all just press bullshit to try and discredit current EVs and buy Toyota time to continue pushing gas and hybrid.
And as for the whole thing of people not buying EVs, that's twofold. One, people are hurting right now, and people in bad economic condition get really price conscious. The second gas prices go up they'll all be trading their gas guzzlers for EVs. Second, the simple fact is a lot of EVs on the road kind of suck. And other than Tesla, the public charging infrastructure is awful so if you like road trips you're going to have a bad time. Given that in another year other automakers will mostly be switching to Tesla charge ports, unless you're buying a Tesla there's some logic in waiting.
I bought a car last summer, and I had my wallet out ready to buy an EV. I had only 2 criteria:
Guess how many models were available? 1 - the Tesla Model Y, 7-seater option. And I did order one, but they cancelled my order because they stopped selling that variant in Canada.
So that's why I didn't buy an EV. Manufacturers can't be arsed to build a car that meets my very simple criteria; they prefer making another boring 5-seater crossover or yet another humongous "luxury" SUV. I want a minivan, dammit.
Honest question, what about the buzz-e?
You mean the VW ID.Buzz? It's not out yet, and I needed a car in June.
Are you talking about the US? They are here, in Copenhagen, and they look awesome!
I'm in Canada, we're supposed to get the US model which is longer and not out yet. The European model is only a 5-seater so it's not for me.
Wait list for the EV9 is already over a year and it just became “available” in Canada.
You're not wrong. A model X would also fit your bill, but last summer they were stupid expensive. Prices have come down a bit. I would suggest buying any car consider the total cost of ownership, not just 'stretch a bit to avoid gas'. Gas cars need oil changes, tune-ups, belt replacements, and various other maintenance. EVs require very little. Also, if you need more than 5 seats, don't shun the 'humongous' SUV. You're literally in that market.
But for someone in the market last year, you were pretty fucked even I will admit.
I do wish somebody was making an electric minivan. Closest I'm aware of is Chrysler has a Pacifica plug in hybrid. And now there's the ID.Buzz coming out soon.
The Pacifica is actually what I ended up buying.
EDIT: And yeah, looks like Model X has come down in price, but it's still 110k$ CAD (was 140+). Somebody else mentioned the Kia EV9 which actually has a price now, and it's very interesting. I've talked to my local dealer and they'll call me back when they have one available for test drives.
Humongous, perhaps. Luxury, not really. I'm just not the type of guy who needs a special type of car to feel manly; minivans actually feel more useful to me.
Oh yeah I hear ya. You'd like a big SUV like a Tahoe or Suburban, you don't need fancy leather seats and big touchscreen and a little motor that massages your butt while you drive (and you don't want to pay for that stuff).
Not much in that regard available these days...
Actually, no. I'd like a Dodge Caravan or Odyssey. The Tahoe and Suburban are way too big on the outside, but they're actually very small on the inside.
You're on point about the fanciness, though. I got TVs in my current car (Pacifica Pinnacle, it's the only model they had), and they're awful. For the cost of that option, I would've been much better off buying a bunch of iPads.
I've been looking at the EV9 and people who have driven it seem to love a lot about it, except for one thing. The incessant beeping. It has safety features that beep about everything and often you don't know why it's even doing it. You can turn it off but they only stay disabled till you turn off the vehicle. next time you get in bEep BEep beEp.
My wife would end up lighting it on fire and pushing off a cliff she would be so annoyed. If there is no way to permanently disable it then hard pass.
The only thing that will sell that car is if it actually gets those charge and range numbers, it’s affordable - and I mean affordable relative to current average ICE cars, not EVs; and it actually does car things that people want. Not built like a tin can, decent interior and seating, etc.
Current EVs price most people out of the market right away. Range and charge times eliminate a lot more people because there may not be charging convenient to where they leave the car for work, shopping, etc and they don’t want to sit for “x” time to allow the car to charge. Towing reducing range rapidly in EV trucks seems to keep people away because it’s not doing what a ICE truck can do despite all the power the motor has.
Yes, we’re still in the relatively early stages of EV development, so I’m not trying to bash EV. I’m very much for them. Just got a PHEV and love it, going for weeks and only burning 1/8 tank of gas is f’n awesome. But straight EV has a lot of work to do to become viable for the masses.
LoL. There's a Google tech talk where the guys doing the autonomous driving DARPA challenge talk about how slow and awful military contractors are. Then they say "we just took off the shelf gps systems (you know, the ones the military contractors spent decades designing and building) and built something that works! Look how much faster the private sector is!"
That talk is 15 years old now.
Oh for sure. There's a whole industry of them, and they all milk Uncle Sam for everything the taxpayers worth with little need to produce real result. Look at SpaceX versus SLS. Well it's true that SLS design was handicapped by Congress requirement to use old shuttle parts, the result is still a giant boondoggle that is very late, tens of billions over budget, and best case is going to cost $2 billion for each launch (which can only happen once every year or so). Meanwhile, all SpaceX expenditures to date including development of Falcon 1, Falcon 9, Starship, Super Heavy, Merlin, Raptor, and construction of an entire spaceport in Texas, have cost them by most estimates less than Boeing took to design one rocket. SpaceX is launching Falcon 9 twice a week. And to compete with SLS, once Starship is online it could theoretically launch once a day for $20 million rather than once a year for $2 billion.
Private sector can be efficient, but only when their own bottom line depends on efficiency. When there's cost plus contracts involved, it really doesn't.
Also most of Tesla's worth is in stock. If that ever collapses theres a good chance those stations will be little more than scrap.
Other car makers have adopted that charger, I'm sure they would grab those up.
Strong disagree. Let's say Tesla stock collapses. They are still a very profitable company with a product that sells well. So unless they're finances are structured in such a way that makes a stock price collapse catastrophic, they would continue to sell cars. They're charging network is actually one of the most valuable things they have. It's taken them a decade plus to get that infrastructure installed, there are more stations and stalls than all other charging networks combined in the US. That's why just about every automaker has pledged to adopt the Tesla charging connector. They recognize that pinning their EV future to Electrify America's shitty unreliable network is not a success strategy, and part of the reason their EVs aren't selling is because public charging on road trips is a nightmare.
So no, those stations aren't scrap. They're insanely valuable. Even if you assume something horrible happens to Tesla and everybody decides not to adopt that connector, the stations can be easily retrofit to use the CCS connector that other automakers use currently.