this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2023
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submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by dino@discuss.tchncs.de to c/gaming@beehaw.org
 

So yeah, I want to discuss or point out why I think Valve needs to fix Anti-Cheat issues. They have VAC but apparently its doing jackshit, be it Counter Strike 2 (any previous iterations) or something like Hunt: Showdown the prevalence of cheating players is non deniable. For me personally it has come to a point that I am not enjoying playing those games anymore, although they are great games by itself. But the amount of occurrences being killed or playing against cheaters is at a height, where I don't see the point anymore.

  • Why I think Valve is the only company able to something against cheaters?

Because they have the tools with VAC already aiming to prevent cheaters. Valve has got the resources to actually invest into something more profound which could be used for any game where anti-cheat protection needs to be implemented. And lastly Valve is the company which is interested in furthering the ability to gaming on Linux, the anti-cheat solution needs to work on both operating systems. Only Valve has the motivation and means to achieve that with their knowledge and resources. What do you guys think about the topic? Is the fight against cheaters hopeless? Do you think some other entity should provide anti-cheat protection, why? I skimmed over "anti cheat in linux kernel" posts in the net, but I have very little knowledge about the topic, what is your stance on it?

Edited: Mixed EAC with VAC. EAC seems to be part of Epic Company. Both of these tools seem unable to prevent cheating like mentioned above.

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[–] skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

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[–] savvywolf@pawb.social 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Server side anti cheat can't distinguish good players from aimbots.

I've been thinking about this, and I wonder how accurate this is. I think overuse of all this modern AI nonsense is a problem, but wonder if this might be a good use case for it.

A big game will probably have huge amounts of training data for both cheaters and non cheaters. An AI could probably pick up on small things like favouring the exact centre of the head or tracking through walls.

If a user has a few reports of aimbotting, just have this AI follow them for a bit and make a judgement.

It'll get it wrong sometimes, but that's why you also implement a whole appeals process with actual humans. Besides, client side anticheat systems also have a nasty habit of mistakenly banning people for having specific hardware/software configs.

However, I would like games to come with servers again so you can play games on your own terms

Please! Not just for anticheat reasons, but also for mods and keeping the game playable when the publishers decide it isn't profitable.

[–] tal@lemmy.today 1 points 11 months ago

However, I would like games to come with servers again so you can play games on your own terms

Please! Not just for anticheat reasons, but also for mods and keeping the game playable when the publishers decide it isn’t profitable.

The problem is that having an essential component of the game run on servers that only the publisher has access to is also a pretty effective way to do DRM, so they've got a pretty strong incentive not to do that. It's a lot easier to ensure that someone paid for an account on publisher-run servers than that someone paid for a copy of the server and client binaries that they are in possession of.

[–] jaykay@lemmy.zip 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

In case of CS2, it doesn’t even ban people who teleport behind you at the first second of the round. Or killing everyone through the whole map like here (Reddit): link

[–] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I made an anti-cheat for vanilla minecraft once, it's REALLY easy to tell if someone is cheating it's just developers are grotesquely incompetent when it comes to detecting that sort of thing or (more often) just don't give a shit. They'll just create a naïve solution then never test it. For example: minecraft's god awful anti-fly and anti-speedhack which is just "is the player in the air for 5 seconds" or "did the player go too fast" which is notorious for false positives and doesn't even stop people trying to cheat, just punishes players for its own fuck-ups.

It really is as simple as creating a model of what the player should be able to do, and then nudging clients towards that expected play. Normal players will not even notice (or will be pleased when it fixs a desync) but cheaters will get ENRAGED and try to cheat harder before eventually giving up. The point of a good anticheat is not to punish players for cheating, but to make it easier and more fun to play within the rules.

It's like piracy: We had years of systems built on punishment and all they do is create resentment and people trying to break your system, but you build a system on rehabilitation and you become one of the biggest platforms for PC gaming with people willingly downloading it.