this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2023
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He isn't a "really good business man", everything he's made is built on a foundation of lies. Eventually, it'll collapse or be saved by socialised systems for being too big to fail. Musk is a con man, not a businessman. He's just made a living out of conning investors and the public alike.
I don't know, it sounds like the definition of a business man. Not one I'd admire, but not unlike lots of other business men.
No, businessmen do business. Steve Jobs did business, he figured out markets, created markets based on what his business could provide. That's actual business.
A grifter, a con man, is not a business man, they wear the skin of one to fool people like yourself into buying into the con. Looks like it works.
Steve Jobs also conspired with his competitors to underpay their staff. Staff as in the people that helped him do business and make billions
Right? At least Elon doesn't have to conspire to underpay his staff.
As much as I loathe musk, this is exactly what Starlink is. It's a company founded solely to buy the product SpaceX is making, because other people couldn't buy enough.
Of course, Starlink is floating almost entirely on venture capital, but that's how Amazon got started too.
Here's the rub. Starlink is not and can not be profitable without venture capital and subsidies. It exists to funnel money away from taxpayers. It's a con built on lies like the rest. At least some people get to benefit from this, unlike people sold overhyped cars and promises of Mars colonies, but that's changing with price hikes and service degredations too.
can I get a source on the math for this? I haven't heard that before
What math do you want? The cost of launching infinite space ships forever is more than what subscribers pay. The satellites fall down in about a year and new ones need to be launched. The subscribers would have to pay for every single rocket launch. Right now American tax payers do.
The problem is you say this with certainty but have no numbers or evidence to back it up. How do you know the revenue from subscribers can't cover rocket launches?
It got almost a billion dollars in subsidies from America last year. This is whilst being unprofitable.
It seems Starlink A) isn't getting subsidies and SpaceX is B) providing services in exchange for payment rather than just getting free money.
On top of this, SpaceX is reportedly still profitable. I just don't understand your argument here. No sources, no actual hard data just conjecture.
Starlink was definitely on track to receive significant subsidy, the FCC recently rescinded.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/us-agency-will-not-reinstate-900-mln-subsidy-spacex-starlink-unit-2023-12-13/
Alright, this doesn't support your argument. That is a counter example that SpaceX ISN'T receiving subsidies. Anything else? I do appreciate the discourse though
Musk's companies had received an estimated $4.9 billion in government support by 2015, and they've gotten more since.
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-list-government-subsidies-tesla-billions-spacex-solarcity-2021-12?op=1#spacex-lands-a-289-billion-contract-with-nasa-in-april-2021-1
I didn't make an argument, I just provided primary source facts.
fair, my apologies, thought you were the original commentator
My evil, greedy and manipulative capitalist is better than your evil, greedy and manipulative capitalist!!!!
My point is that one is a greedy, evil businessman. The other is a greedy, evil conman.
But only if you draw a very careful line around definitions, what musk does is very standard capitalist business and what jobs did is very much the behaviour of a classic conman. Apples whole business strategy is straight out the carnival con artist playbook, you'll find all the same tricks at any market stall
True.
I think that the criticism is that our system does not raise the smartest or the best to the top.
I understand where you're coming from, but business is brutal and things like this happen in that world. PayPal (formely X .com) was also started by Elon, I don't think he "scammed/tricked" anyone on that. And he has made billions for his investors over the years. I mean Tesla is worth over $600 billion, due to the marketing genius that is Elon. [Mistake: Elon didn't start PayPal, just X .com]
Man, learn something about someone before you go worshipping them.
X was bought by paypal, but was far from "integral." It was just its largest competitor for Confinidy at the time because Musk was washing it in money he made from a previous venture.Paypal was the more popular money transfer software, and it's the platform the new company formed around, even taking its name.
Musk was a actually briefly the CEO of PayPal, but his decisions were so poor that he was forced out.. He still retained enough shares of paypal to hit it big time, which is when he poured all that money into a long shot bet called Tesla, which he used goverment funds and seed capitol from his rich friends to keep alive until it turned an actual profit a decade later. With SpaceX, he leaned into fanboys like you calling him Tony stark, and managed to hire Gwynne Shotwell, a goddamn aeronautics powerhouse, as CEO the same year it was founded. She has brought SpaceX to success, by all accounts in spite of him. Its rumored that SpaceX keeps people around just to sideline Musk. That how disruptive he is to actual work. SpaceX was also utterly dependent on goverment subsides for most its existence, just like Tesla.
Dude grew up with emerald mine money, then just kept taking outlandish risks because he had an emerald mine to keep his ass housed and fed, and yeah, eventually hit it big, with a big heaping of help from our tax dollars and mega rich pals. Big surprise.
Turns out that if you have a wealthy life secured, you too can gamble big and make even more money. Thats how capitalism is designed to work. Capital makes more capital.
The fact that you're suckered in by the worlds luckiest gambler playing a game that had no actual stakes for him is sad as fuck man. Be proud of someone who overcame actual adversity. Go find a hero that wants to help people, not to rule them.
Interesting, thanks for sharing. I'll have to do some more research on Elon then.
Don't forget blatant market manipulation. Pump&dumps on Bitcoin, doge coin, TWTR, and TSLA...
I still don't get the emerald mine money bit. Even snopes ran on it that the perpetuated story is bogus, with properly cited sources on where the whole comment originated from.
I think Musk is a grifter, but let's stick to facts instead of hearsay.
Edit: for those asking:
https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/11/17/elon-musk-emerald-mine/
Could you link that source? I can’t find it
Here you go:
https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/11/17/elon-musk-emerald-mine/
Honestly it sounds to me like there’s an effort to keep his father’s involvement in emeralds a secret.
here it is. The whole thing seems rather murky and somewhat shady too. The most specific statement on it is this:
So maybe not a whole emerald mine, but like an unofficial small stake in an emerald mine? Still, 400k ain't bad at all for a handshake deal.
Yeah, I don’t buy it. Rich people lie and hide their money all the time.
He didn’t start PayPal. It was founded by Pieter Thiel, another billionaire christofascist, and four other guys and non of them are called Elon Musk. X.com was bought by PayPal.
It's wild how little this dude knows about Elon musk while singing his praises to the heavens, but I guess those two things go hand in hand.
Muskrats are always the least informed people in the room when it concerns Elon Musk. It'd be a lot funnier if it weren't so damn easy to find the actual facts. There's really no excusing it, they're just willfully ignorant.
"Oh yeah he didn't actually do that.. Still, what a genius amirite?"