this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024
577 points (99.1% liked)
Technology
59635 readers
2947 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
This sort of thing is why I dislike legislation that mandates the use of something very specific. Things change and it is better to create laws that don’t become outdated as fast as tech tends to.
That's a Japan thing and a legislative failure.
What normally happens in most countries is the law would say something vague like "digital means or devices such as floppy disks or equivalent".
Then the Executive makes and maintains the rules of application of that law according to the Hierarchy of Norms (things probably are organized differently in Common Law countries so I don't know the English term but the principle is the same), which dictates in more detail how the law is to be applied ("please use a web form, or a USB keys for legacy processes").
Sometimes the executive lags behind a bit but typically it's just a ministry making decisions within the margin of the law, so it's not too bad.
Without it we get a different iPhone charger every year that no other device is allowing to use
It’s just a brick with a USB socket. I still have 5W usb chargers from iPhones a decade ago that work with anything USB.
They didn’t change connectors on the cables frequently either. The old big one, lightning, and USB C are the only connectors iPhone used.
They also switched ten years ago saying it would be “the connector for the next decade” and now the newer phones are getting USB-C.
Anti-apple people are such pants-pissers.
So they held their word. A decade is ten years.
Exactly
The law doesn't even force USBC it just forces whatever the international standards working group recommends, if they change the recommendation it will change the port.
So we're actually having our cake and eating it.
Also stuff like USB 5.0 specifications are designed to work on USBC port so again no actual upgrade will be required.
It's an argument of centralization vs. decentralization and there are pros and cons to each approach.
Hey, hey - you’re going to have to hotten up that take there, Bubba.
"I have no executive function, so I need the executive branch of the government to function for me."
Is that hot enough?
🔥
Guess what the EU just did with USB-C?
The EU regulation doesn't say "USB-C", but "industry standard charging port" or something. What's industry standard is an executive decision of the EU commission, unless the USB-IF does something tremendously stupid the commission is just going to rubber-stamp any new standard they come up with.
The EU didn't event want to legislate in the first place and would've preferred for manufacturers to get together and just be sensible, but, well, Apple. The only hold-out.
That’s not quite accurate. The EU doesn’t want anything, but the people involved in this decision absolutely wanted to regulate this. It’s been an issue for decades at this point.
It’s also not because of “well, Apple”. This law doesn’t apply to phones alone, it’s pretty much any mobile device.
It also, and this is one of the big and important parts, requires manufacturers to offer the option to NOT have chargers included. The goal here is to reduce the MASSIVE amount of e waste generated by tablets, phones, cameras, and even (especially in my mind, as these are often not compatible even amongst single manufacturers) laptop chargers. That’s an awesome part of the rule, even if it has a larger compliance window.
Lastly, while the law itself doesn’t require USB C, the legal annex absolutely and quite explicitly DOES state that manufacturers must use USB C. There is a provision that reports must be made every 5 years or so, and consideration will be made concerning the required standards (wireless is mentioned as not being able to effectively be regulated in this way as of yet).
This is a huge win in terms of the reduction in e waste, and the option to not receive a charger is, in my opinion, one of the best parts. I have way too many USB C cables that I can’t find a place to use them all, and I’ve got them in every room.
The EU doesn't want anything?
Nope. The members of the parliament and council want things. And unlike what the previous commenter said, the vast majority of them did want to regulate this, have wanted to regulate this, and desire regulation independent of Apple’s stubborn refusal to join the 2020s (and late 2010s truthfully).
This was my point. The EU isn’t an amorphous blob, and the individuals involved with this decision do and have wanted this.
That is kind of bordering on metaphysics. The will of the EU is what they agree upon. What they agree upon is decided by vote of its members.
Saying the EU doesn't want something because technically it's made of people is not saying much at all, imo. I could just as well claim that there is no free will at all, and we'd be stuck arguing it for 2000 years.
My Americanism got in the way I guess. My politicians are doing their best to not enact a law that went in the ballot as a citizen led initiative and received a majority vote. So saying “America thinks this thing because some politicians did a fucked up thing” would be disingenuous.
My point was that I won’t speak for everyone in the eu, but the members of the European Parliament involved in this directed do want, have wanted, and continue to want this regulation. Saying the “eu” didn’t want this, but “well Apple” is just ridiculous, and the directive I would argue affects other products significantly more simply because of all the laptops switching to usb c. If we just go around pretending the “eu” had their hand forced by one company’s cellphone business (large or not), then we are pretending the other massive corporations are *not committing an infraction against humanity with the large amount of ewaste they are producing.
So I could have worded “the eu doesn’t want anything) better. I just didn’t want an already long post to be even longer. I wrote a book here before I had to erase it and trim it down and I still feel like it’s too long and maybe doesn’t even effectively explain my position l, so maybe I just suck at communicating.
I don't know what kind of distinction you want to drive at, here. Yes, of course, EU regulations are passed by the parliament. The commission also wanted it in some form. Generally speaking there was no real stiff opposition as pretty much everyone in politics can get something out of it, Greens get their environmentalism, the rest of the parliament and the commission get positive publicity.
Apple was the one not switching their phones over, thus the EU (as in "it's amorphous collective blob of decision-making") came to see that they'd indeed needed to pass legislation, asking wasn't enough.
Indeed.
Yes that's the starting point. It's been a while since I looked at the text but the commission is empowered to update that part. That's why it's in an annex and not the legal text proper.
The distinction there is just that your statement about the eu NOT wanting to regulate this is incorrect. This is something the members of the eu have wanted regulation on for some time. And not because of Apple, but because of most major manufacturers.
Again, no. It’s not because Apple didn’t change their plug for their mobile devices. It’s because of every device using different chargers. Again, laptops are much worse than a single cable that hasn’t changed in a decade.
By blaming one corporation alone, you are giving every single bad actor a pass. This is how they get away with shit like this.
I’d argue notebook chargers are even MORE awful at this because they’re usually at least $50 for an off-brand and significantly more from the manufacturer.
When needed, they can change it faster than Japan did.
you're incorrect. It doesn't restrict itself to the USB-C
Luckily usb-c is probably gonna stick around for a while and it's just a form factor. The standard itself has room to grow, and the EU left the rules open to change.
But I understand the concern, legislating tech sucks. On the other hand, when companies care almost exclusively about profit, not customers or the future of our planet, and won't improve things themselves... not a lot of other options.