this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2023
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Larian has delayed the release of Baldur’s Gate 3, currently on pace to possibly be 2023’s Game of the Year, until they can figure out how to make split-screen work on Series S.

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[–] barely_aware@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I still don't really understand this. Local splitscreen on a game the size of baldurs gate does make sense to me as being a technical hurdle, obviously rendering the game world twice is extremely taxing.

I keep seeing complaints about other games also, lots off people seem to be blaming the Series S for Remnant 2s slow xbox patches.

The Series S is basically an X with a weaker GPU, how are games (that also release on PC) not scalable enough to run on the S at 1080p when they can run at 4k on the X? I'd love a technical answer, if I replace my 3080 with a 1060 I could run the game on my PC and a lower resolution/graphic settings. How is this different from the Series X/S? I'm not a programmer/developer and I'd really like if someone could explain too me why the Series S is a problem because from my view point it's lazy developers with unoptimised games

[–] PenguinTD@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

did you think of the possibility that even Larian's low settings still can't run on series S? Given the amount of assets I saw it's actually quite possible that vram requirement are pretty high and that's why PS5 have delay as well so they can figure out ways to consolidate textures used etc. Like they can't even manage to let me stack rope or water bottle properly in inventory(maybe some asset id not cleaned up during development), so having excessive vram usage is fairly easy/common for content heavy games.

[–] Helvedeshunden@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Today’s Digital Foundry video suggests that this is far from the issue. Even the highest texture settings fit comfortably in 6 GB. IIRC it was around 4,5 - and consoles typically go for high rather than ultra settings.

[–] PenguinTD@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Xbox series S have 8GB for game, so while BG3 might consume around 4-5GB on PC, console with unified memory couldn't afford this. All the other assets(model/animation/audio clips/massive amount of icons) needs to be loaded as well. With split screen, you can have one person tries to go into conversation (that streaming in high res texture/face models, etc) while the other one stay and still render the world with all the things their camera can move around with.

[–] Helvedeshunden@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I went back and had a look. It’s between 2165MB and 3720 MB based on settings. Doesn’t really seem problematic on the low end.

[–] PenguinTD@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't know what to say other than maybe you should send Larian your resume and type "I am sure series S can be ported no issue, here is my numbers." I am sure Larian would love to have simultaneous launch like PS5 and you can cut a really good deal if you can manage to pull that. BUT, you would have to pass the [Persuasion] check though, hope you have high cha to back it up. :)

[–] Helvedeshunden@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

Very funny. Just saying that textures don’t seem to be the issue. Any number of other things might be from rendering methods to whatever.

[–] K0bin@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

For one viewport!

The problem with Series S is split screen.

Also that's 6GB of dedicated VRAM. Consoles have unified memory, so you need to fit the OS and the non-graphics memory in there too.

[–] hypelightfly@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's only VRAM. You're missing the other half.

[–] Helvedeshunden@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

It’s unified RAM on Xbox. And medium settings are 2165MB on PC.

[–] barely_aware@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

To be clear, I'm not trying to attack Larian here. I think splitscreen is a much bigger technical hurdle than other games have to deal with and delaying it on the Xbox was the right idea. But, the PC versions minimum requirements is 4GB vram and recommended 8GB vram. The Series S has 10GB vram. I'm more annoyed by the anti Series S rhetoric going around about it holding all games back, because most games with a PC release scale no problem

[–] red@sopuli.xyz 8 points 1 year ago

It's not baseless rhetoric when a dev team has literally called it out as a big tech hurdle.

[–] neshura@bookwormstory.social 3 points 1 year ago

What you're not seeing or understanding:

The Xbox Seried S does not have 10GB VRAM it has 10GB VRAM/RAM that can be dynamically allocated to whatever the game needs.

Baldur's Gate 3 needs 12GB combined VRAM/RAM at minimum. While the Xbox OS peobably doesn't eat as much RAM as Windows does the difference is apparently not 2GB which leaves the Series S with not eniugh RAM to power the game.

As others mentioned for the Steamdeck Splitscreen was disabled, however that was likely done to save GPU performance, unlike the Series S the Steamdeck has enough RAM (16GB) to meet the minimum requirements.

[–] PenguinTD@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago

See my other reply, 4gb beam is not the same requirement for series S cause consoles use unified memory.(also it only have 8GB for game)

https://www.thegamer.com/xbox-series-s-apparently-vram-issues/

[–] stopthatgirl7@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It wasn’t delayed on the PS5; that was the original release plan. They moved the release UP for PC because they didn’t want to have to compete with Starfield’s release. Since that’s not coming out on PS5, they left the release date as is.

[–] PenguinTD@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago

Right, I forgot about this, thanks for correction.

[–] hypelightfly@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

The Series S is basically an X with a weaker GPU

And significantly less RAM, which is probably the issue here.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The main difficulty with split screen is that you need to be able to fit everything you need to render the scene into RAM, twice. Let's go through some cases:

Just rendering to a higher resolution still lets you get away with the same amount of RAM if you use low-res textures, or a moderate increase because you're using high-res textures, but only in the foreground -- all you need is enough GPU compute power to push the pixels.

If you're rendering VR both camera perspectives are going to be nearly identical, looking at the same objects, so RAM use is nearly identical to a single camera. Your frame time targets are much stricter in VR, you have to have high and very regular fps or people are going to puke, but again that's compute pressure, not memory pressure.

In the split-screen case all bets are off: When players are at opposite sides of the map there may be literally zero meshes and textures in common between those two areas and you need twice the RAM for twice the amount of camera views. Nothing in common is the worst case, yes, but it's bound to happen, and not leave PR in a situation where they have to say "We degraded performance when players are far apart to promote an atmosphere of closeness and cooperation".

[–] Smoke@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Xbox owners who are not following video game news every second of the day might find themselves buying a Series S version thinking they can play co-op with their friend who owns a Series X and they…can’t.

The problem here is implied to be local co-op between X and S players?

[–] HumbleFlamingo@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Series S is basically an X with a weaker GPU

If it was just a GPU difference, you'd be right it should be easy to just run it less pretty. But the memory limitations are the real issue. The X has 16 GB of memory and the S has 10 GB. And worse, the memory performance is drastically different. The X has 10 GB that runs at 560 GB/s and 6 that runs at 336 GB/s, where as the S has 8 GB at 224 GB/s and 2 GB at 56GB/s. (I did not miss a zero on the last value)

[–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Holy crap that's an absurd kneecapping with the RAM. No wonder they're having parity issues

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.one 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It has less RAM than the Xbox ONE X as well and is incapable of running backwards compatible games with Xbox One X enhancements.

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/xbox-series-s-likely-wont-be-able-to-run-xbox-one-x-content-its-claimed/