this post was submitted on 03 May 2024
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And still I ask, what year was the last year we should allow borders for countries to change.
Israel conquered that area in the late 40s. It's theirs. If they should have to give it back, should Germany also be allowed to attack its neighbours be given back land that was taken from it after WW2 when the borders were redrawn?
It's stupid that the general population simultaneously thinks that war is bad and people should give back their land, while not recognizing that their borders were established by war too and they were not the original inhabitants.
Algeria was conquered by france in 1830 does that mean in 1870 they didn't have to fight back because they lost?
I'm not arguing against fighting back for Palestinians, they can go ahead, but people shouldn't be upset when Israel fights them back and kicks their ass. Again, it's Israel's territory. It has been for over 75 years.
Of course they should get upset. The west bank is not part of Israel and gaza too so israel shouldn't have the right to control gaza water and electricity and we should upset that ten thousands of innocent people was killed. Back to germany example the land they gave up was land that was stolen by them before the world wars. By your logic, if the axis was the winners of the war, would that mean that germany would have the right to own france and build settlments on it and whwn french people would have fight they wouldn't have the right to complains and be upset by germany response?
From an international perspective, and there's a treaty defining them, the borders of Israel include both of those places.
Israel was created by the same group that broke up Germany because it was part of the ottoman empire before that, and the ottoman empire was destroyed as part of the losers of the war.
Again, I'm not saying the Palestinian people don't have a right to complain or even fight back, but if they lose, they lose. It's not their land, they lost the war 75 years ago. Israel has been letting them stay, but if they want to be assholes about it they're going to get evicted.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/10/commission-inquiry-finds-israeli-occupation-unlawful-under-international-law
False, the west bank is illegally occupied by Israel under international law it's not israel land.
The UN doesn't officially recognize Palestine as a country, so they can fuck right off with their assessment. It's unlikely Palestine will ever be allowed to be a country.
Based on official treaties from 1949, the west bank should be Jordanian, and the Gaza strip should be Egyptian
Israel conquered both of those places again in 1967, and neither Egypt nor Jordan want them back at this point.
So politically speaking, they are conquered parts of Israel at the moment.
Again, all of this comes down to "when are we no longer allowing borders to change"?
Palestine is not a country, they aren't likely to become a country, they're free to try to become a country, but they're also likely to fail and the consequences of attacking Israel to try to become a country are clearly visible in Israel's retaliation.
Israel should not be expected to give up land to local populations just because they want it. If all of Israel has a vote to give it to them, sure, go ahead and form a new country but that's not how this situation is going to happen.
I feel the same way about Quebec independence. If they vote to leave by themselves, the answer is no. If the whole countries votes to allow them to leave, then no problem. If they were to attack Ontario in retaliation for failing to be allowed to leave, we shouldn't just give in, we should do the exact same thing Israel is doing.
I bet most Americans feel the same way about Native groups, what if one wanted to break off from the US and take a chunk of land to have 100% control. Not just most control, but 100% separate recognized country with 0% US jurisdiction. They wouldn't like it. If those tribes then attacked nearby US cities with rockets, the same population would immediately demand the military go in to deal with it. Despite those tribes having far more historical title to the land than Palestinians do (something like 95% of Palestinians were born outside of Palestinian territories or are only 1st generation Palestinians)