this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2024
457 points (98.9% liked)
Technology
59219 readers
3320 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I am confused then what is Congress' problem here?
Aint this where they are taking us anyway? Or they are worried commie police also getting the same info?
The data is also available to DJI, and through them the CCP.
I have to inform you that that US has some of the best spy satellite networks on the planet.
People shocked that other countries play the spook game too is amazing.
So they'll be able to see that I recorded some footage of some boats near San Francisco?
This could be a severe national security problem if the drones sent back the video to DJI as well, then a foreign power would get geotagged high detail video of areas of the part of SF you flew over, VERY useful to a foreign intelligence service.
And I am not just talking about your drone and your flight, all other people who own and fly drones in the area would also supply data to sutch a system.
I am not saying that this is what they are doing, but please remember that the Brittish government asked the public to send in their holliday photos of the coast of France to help them plan the D-Day invasions. This kind of information is useful.
If they wanted to, they could just send a few Chinese "tourists" over with their DJI (or American) drones and record specific footage instead of metadata about general footage. Or use their satellites. It's not the 1940s any more.
When I fly my drone it's not connected to WiFi, and doesn't even need to be connected to my phone. What network are they sending gigabytes and gigabytes of video data over when I'm recording people fishing on a lake in the middle of nowhere?
And do you think you, and you alone are the sole target of chinese spy programs?
Do you think you speak for everyones behavior when they fly their drones?
You are whats known as the cost of business. You don't follow their plan unknowingly, but enough others do that it doesn't matter if your data is lost.
If gigabytes of video data is being streamed by every single DJI drone it should be easy enough to find out. Use the DJI Android app to control a drone and check the app's data usage before and after.
People won't do that at scale.
Also, China has been caught doing supply chain attacks by inserting chips onto circuit boards to make them easier to compromise. They could slip in a chip that enables a wavelength their satellites can access, for example.
That's the concern Congress has.
Sorry but "they could slip in a chip that enabled a wavelength their satellites can access" is ridiculous. Sending a real-time video stream to a satellite would require a large and very power hungry transmitter on the drone. It'd be super obvious.
It'd take only one person to recognize a sudden large traffic spike caused by the app and post about it online to ruin such a setup. As soon as it's confirmed by a few more people, it'd immediately be a major news story. And it's not like it's particularly hard to spot unusual traffic; especially on a phone where the OS monitors per-app data usage both on mobile and WiFi.
Starlink used ~100W at launch, and it's coming to phones. They could also use cell towers directly. Or sharing data in a swarm with nearby units and sending on whichever has access. Or they wait to upload until they're on wifi when nobody cares about data usage.
There are a lot of theoretical options here. The point isn't to look at a single option, but to consider what China may consider doing once they have eliminated competition. Exfiltrating data is one option, but there are others as well.
The solution isn't to ban DJI drones, but to ensure there's enough competition that they don't have a monopoly.
So why not ban all electronics from China? Why pick an app here, a piece of hardware there?
If absolutely any device made in China could have a secret satellite comms chip embedded in it then banning one brand of drones won't help.
We should do neither. We should allow them, but put tariffs to account for subsidies, which should encourage price competition. The concern is that China will get a monopoly, and that's where supply chain attacks are more likely.
To do what? This isn't a video game, the drone isn't going to hack the Pentagon. And just like TikTok, anyone in a sensitive position will be using a proprietary or locked down device.
That's the thing, we don't know. In the case where they were caught, it was to compromise SuperMicro servers in data centers for remote access.
I don't know why they're so interested in controlling the drone market. Maybe it's as simple as securing manufacturing jobs for their people, but maybe it's part of their spy program.
I don't think we should panic ban them, but we should make sure alternatives are viable so if we find a serious issue, we have a backup plan.
We do know. In order to hack a sensitive network you'd have to fly it into a secure area, have it transform into something that could type on a keyboard and hope nobody shoots the Decepticon.
This is ridiculous levels of fear mongering.
My point is that you don't know what data a foreign government will find usefull.
Satellites are fantastic spying tools, but drones provide a different viewpoint that is far more useful for gathering data that satellites can't.
How realistic is this though?
I thought most people slap a GoPro on their drone (admittedly know very little about the hobby) and how would China secretly be transmitting so much data (4k video) without anyone noticing?
Plus if they want surveillance video, they can just have someone fly their own drone here and capture exactly what they want without having to wade through tons of junk that isn't important to them.
I never spoke about realism, I just countered the comment saying that all they filmed was sailing boats in SF, by remonding them that even innocent looking footage can be used by foreign intelligence.
I even specifically noted that I don't think they are sending the video footage from a drone back to DJI, I say that purely thinking about the ammount of data needed to be sent.
It would have been discovered very quickly if that was the case
They definitely do not send video though. That would be super obvious.
That is exactly what I am saying, as I have sid in other comments, my previous comment was never about is they did it, but rather to explain that even innocent footage is useful to bad guys.
At least that was consentual. The UK government basically said "Hey guys, the nazis are bad. So help us plan an attack by sending us your family vacation photos of some beaches on Frances beaches.
And everyone was like "yeah, alright. That sounds good"
China is basically like "lets set up spying EVERYWHERE! Even in countries we don't have claim to."
You missed the point. Whether it's consensual isn't important, what's important is that a foreign power has access to a lot of detailed information about an adversary. It's hard to quantify the value of a lot of "benign" data points when aggregated.
https://www.theverge.com/22985101/dji-aeroscope-ukraine-russia-drone-tracking
Something that stuck out to me:
So the verge just took a foreign for profit company at their word, and called it "fact checking"???
Modern investigative journalism everybody!
And who is this independant source? How did they get their info? Did that independant source ALSO just call DJI?
Cold war politics is more important than the surveillance state.