this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2023
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Fuck Cars

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A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!

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Image transcript:

Calvin (from Calvin & Hobbes) sitting at a lemonade stand, smiling, with a sign that reads, "Trains and micromobility are inevitably the future of urban transportation, whether society wants it or not. CHANGE MY MIND."

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[–] Nioxic@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Nope.

Those super long electric busses will become more popular than trains. They are muuch cheaper to get. You can just send in a new one in case the first one breaks down, etc.

Though we also cant all live nrar these "train stops"?

I dont live near any right now.

[–] Olgratin_Magmatoe@startrek.website 11 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Trains can transport higher loads of people though. So ultimately both trains and busses need to be the priority.

[–] Beliriel@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What needs to happen first is fuel price needs to be so high that people are incentivized to

a) switch to public transit no matter how shitty it is because they just can't afford a car anymore
b) start public transit companies because there is money to be made and the oil lobbies don't have enough money anymore to lobby effectively

My guess is before 2050 nobody will really get anything done because the oil lobby is just too powerful. Would be great though.

What needs to happen first is fuel price needs to be so high that people are incentivized to

Absolutely. The fossil fuel industry recieves billions upon billions of dollars in subsidies every year. Why in the actual fuck are we still paying for something that is actively killing us? It makes no sense. All of the subsidies to fossil fuels needs to be re-routed towards public transportation and green energy.

[–] triplenadir@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

making consumables more expensive just makes them cheaper for the rich. poor people in areas with inadequate public transit will largely just keep driving and become poorer (maybe some of them will switch to the inadequate public transit, then they'll be even poorer, and it likely won't improve the transit systems either).

tax the rich in proportion to their wealth., spend it on better public interest transport infrastructure

[–] Beliriel@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Those markets can't run on the rich alone. And yeah it will make rural poor people poorer. That's actually also the goal. Urban sprawl should be stopped. Why do people need to build houses and villages out in bumfuck nowhere and then complain when amenities and authorties are shitty out there? These people should imo be forced to make a hard decision because if they can't afford gas anymore they will move closer to a city since the move is more affordable than paying for gas. Hence prevention of sprawl and reducing of gas use. The only people that can stay are the ones that a) are rich and b) require it for their work (e.g. farmers) or c) ones that can work locally without driving around.

[–] triplenadir@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I totally agree that urban sprawl sucks, and should be stopped. a much more direct and fair way to do this would be to remove zoning restrictions that only allow building single family homes (instead of any higher-density housing) in most urban parts of north america, and remove minimum parking requirements for businesses – and hope that the cultural shift propagates to other places where these car-dependent designs have taken hold.

secondly, calling people needing transport a "market" seems like part of the same faulty thinking where public services need to turn a profit. taxing the rich could absolutely pay for a lot more public transport: before the Beeching cuts in the 1960s, the UK had around twice as many passenger railway lines – this was also at a time when the top rate of income tax there was 83%, as opposed to 45% now.

lastly, maybe think about who rich people exploited in order to get their (your?) money before proposing policies that explicitly aim to make poor people poorer, while letting the rich continue to live where they (you?) please

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[–] bouh@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

We can all live near a train stop. Roads were built everywhere. Train rails are actually not as expensive to build

[–] brianorca@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But they don't handle the 90° corners that are built into so much of the existing landscape.

[–] uis@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You wanr to say cars can turn 90° on the spot? Unless you are an Ukrainian farmer, no - your car is not a tank.

[–] brianorca@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

No, I'm saying there's a huge difference between a 15 foot turning radius and a 400 foot turning radius. Trying to put trains in the existing 50 foot x 50 foot road intersections is not going to work without moving a lot of buildings.

[–] uis@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

15 foot turning radius

Sounds like a forklift. Double for cars, or triple for speeders and idiots.

400 foot turning radius

20 meters at most. 71-931 has 20, and it's HUGE. Or 65 units of imperialism.

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[–] uis@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Those super long electric busses will become more popular than trains.

Though heavy batteries are bad for energy efficiency and big capacity batteries are long to charge. Well, it can be solved by constantly charging them. This also allows to reduce required capacity, thus reducing weight. Constant charging most efficiently can be done by using wires. Oh, wait. I just reinvented trolley.

Though we also cant all live nrar these "train stops"?

*European disagreeing noises*