News
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
view the rest of the comments
Rittenhouse is an idiot who shouldn't have crossed state lines to go play police officer in another state. I have no problem that his life has been ruined, and if he had been convicted, I wouldn't have shed a tear. Not to mention he is a fucking twat (if what the sister says is true) for not helping them out considering it was his stupidity that put this crosshair on their back. So make no mistake about where I stand on this. The guy is an idiot, but I don't think he was "looking for blood."
That being said, the guy didn't just "have a skateboard" we have a video of him chasing a fleeing rittenhouse and attacking him with the skateboard and trying to grab the gun. The other guy is seen chasing a fleeing Rittenhouse when he turns and shoots. Neither of these people just "flinched." They were both clearly aggressors.
Was he justified in shooting them? I'm not so sure. I tend to lean towards "no." But the fact that you're grossly misinterpreting what actually happened leads me to believe that you are not so sure either. One who is confident that the facts support claim doesn't feel the need to grossly misrepresent the facts.
Except that there's a recording of him saying he wanted to shoot people
Typical librul carin bout facts
Why was he doing that? Because I still haven't heard why. Was he just out for blood and decided to attack a random teenager?
I don't know why either. But my guess is he was being chased for shouting the N word at a BLM protest. Just a guess though. I doubt he was being cordial.
My guess is he was pointing the rifle at people like a moron.
Two things can be true.
Anyone can guess anything happened in the holes of our knowledge that confirms what we want to believe is true. How is your guess any better than the guess of some conservative who believes he was being attacked by criminals and had the right to defend himself?
Actually we have a pretty clear course of events from earlier in the night that helps paint a picture of why it started, though with Rosenbaum dead we can never "know," we at least have some clues. Kyle was dressed similarly to another dude who put out Rosenbaum's dumpster fire at the gas station from the "Shoot me N-word" video (the difference being that dude had a plate carrier while kyle did not). Rosenbaum and his friend Ziminski continued to start fires throughout the night, and at one point Kyle runs by alone. Rosenbaum then steps from behind the car he was hiding behind (as seen on the FBI drone footage) and initiates the chase screaming "I'm going to kill you." Kyle gets cornered as Rosenbaum grabs for it, shoots Rosenbaum, hears "get him" and starts running towards police, gets hit with a rock and downed, misses jump kick man, gets hit with a skateboard and Huber tries to take his gun and gets shot, then Grosskreutz's fake surrender.
Seems to indicate to me that it was started by Rosenbaum mistaking his identity and thinking he was the guy with the fire extinguisher from earlier.
It's not any better than anyone else's. I never claimed it was. That's why I reiterated that is was an ~~opinion~~ guess rather than fact.
I never said my guess was more valid than others. If you feel I worded it that way then that's on you. I was just saying what I felt regardless of what others feel on the subject.
Edit: opinion to guess correction
What's the point of guessing like this then? I don't get it
I'm just posting my opinions online like the rest of us.
I just felt like it.
I guess this is my issue, it's a guess about the facts to justify an opinion, rather than an opinion about the facts.
The most prominent explanation being that he was stopping an active shooter. But even if we accept that story, it completely undercuts the effective argument of "but he just had a skateboard and flinched!"
I think everyone in this situation thought they were doing the noble thing. It's just easier to process if we assume one person is a bad guy, and the other person was acting nobly and rationally in pursuit of some higher purpose, rather than accepting the messy truth.
Except you are suggesting that the person with the skateboard was in the wrong. If he was stopping what he thought was someone about to kill people, which is not the most unfair assumption to make of a kid with a rifle who is obviously not approving of what he's seeing, how was he in the wrong? Isn't that the sort of person the news usually presents to us as the hero?
No I'm not. I said what I said: he was not some person just holding a skate board who flinched, as painted, but an aggressor. Or are you arguing that charging someone and then hitting them with a skateboard is not aggressive?
Again, I did not say he was in the wrong. I just explicitly said I think he believes he was acting nobly.
Is defending people aggression? Because it seems like that is what he was doing just based on inference.
You realize that you're ultimately agreeing with my point: this is not some guy who just flinched, but as you are painting him some hero that chased down someone he thought was about to kill people.
You think he was justified, and maybe he was, but the top level commenter tried to paint this as some innocent person getting shot for not doing anything other than flinching, which grossly misrepresents what you and I both think happened.
I certainly don't agree with your point that defending people is aggression.
I understand that, and I certainly did not say you do. I said you agreed with my ultimate point which I made clear. Why misrepresent what I said?
We had moved on to talk about whether or not defending people is aggression, something you suggested. I didn't misrepresent anything.
Your words:
Again, I would argue that defending people is not aggressive. Something I have yet to see you even acknowledge I said, let alone agree or disagree with.
Maybe you've moved on, certainly it appears you want to, but I've reiterated my point in each of these posts. To argue that I've moved on is patently incorrect.
Our disagreement over whether chasing a fleeing person down and hitting them with a skateboard counts as aggression ultimately makes no difference to my point: I'm not here to take sides and announce who was justified, but to point out that by blatantly misrepresenting what happened it makes it clear that the poster also isn't really confident in their definitive conclusion.
You brought it up. If it makes no difference, don't bring it up. I can't help it if you bring up things you think aren't relevant and this sealioning you're doing is extremely tedious.
The other poster implied that he just had a skateboard and flinched. I pointed out that it was more than that. You disagreed with my classification of it being aggressive, but ultimately agreed with my point that it was more than just a flinch. It wasn't irrelevant, just your classification of it being aggressive was irrelevant. Which is what I already clearly said. Why grossly misconstrue it?
Blatant projection because your posts have been peppered with questions, the last post you are responding to from me is just me restating my argument.
If you try to Defend yourself from a Random Person with a Gun you DESERVE TO DIE!
No one alleged that Rittenhouse pointed the gun at anyone before he was charged. You need to reexamine your priors on this one.
Who said anything about anyone deserving to die? Certainly not me.
"Defend yourself" by chasing a fleeing guy?
Hate to break it to you bud but that doesn't fit the legal definition of self defense anywhere in America.
In some states you aren't required to retreat yourself if you have the legal right to be where you are when you're attacked (this is called "stand your ground" laws). However if the attacker starts fleeing and you pursue you are not allowed to chase them and finish the job. Even if they break into your house, if you surprise them and they run out before they get shot you aren't allowed to wing shots wildly at them down the street. If you see someone murder someone and run away, it is illegal for you to chase and kill them, you're required to let the police take over from there.
Rittenhouse however did attempt to retreat from Rosenbaum who was chasing him and threatening to kill him, until he was cornered and had to shoot Rosenbaum when he reached for the gun. After that, the crowd shouted "he just shot that dude, get him" and surprise, he started running away from the mob of people. Then the dude with a rock took him down, he rolled over, missed jump kick man, then Huber hit him with the trucks and tried to take his gun, which Rittenhouse defended again, then Grosskreutz came and faked surrender before pulling out a gun he wasn't legally allowed to have and Rittenhouse defended again.
At every point, Rittenhouse attempted retreat from those who were attacking him. Vigilante mob justice is super cool or whatever but it is illegal, the crowd had no legal right to "chase a fleeing felon" just as CCW holders don't have that right. Thankfully.