this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2023
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No Stupid Questions

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Let's say there's someone I want to call Mr/Ms/Mrs [Name], but I don't know their gender, is there a title I can use that doesn't assume their gender?

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[–] grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Seconding the honorific "Mx". From what I've seen, it's decently well-adopted in the non-binary community. I've not seen it much used outside of that community--it seems to be used mostly when someone 'needs' an honorific but doesn't fit into the 1950s list. I've heard it pronounced "Mix" and "Mux". I tend to go with "Mix".

IRL, I've used "Hey, you" and "Yo!" when hollering at folks I don't know (example, "Yo! You dropped something!")

Sidenote: As a nonbinary person, I prefer not being given an honorific over being given the wrong one.

Minirant not directed at OP: And omg, if you need to go with a feminine honorific and you don't know whether the person is married, go with Ms, not Mrs. or Miss. The connotations of the wrong one are just creepy.
Not married and called Mrs="Hey, you're too old to be unmarried. Please feel judged about your relationship status"
Married and called Miss="Hey, you're too young to be married. Please feel like I don't respect you as an adult."
In all cases Ms="I don't know and/or care about your marital status and I'm trying to be polite"

[–] ALostInquirer@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

And omg, if you need to go with a feminine honorific and you don’t know whether the person is married, go with Ms, not Mrs. or Miss.

I understand what you mean here, except on the difference between Ms and Miss, do you mean this more in terms of writing than speaking? I ask only because I don't know that I've ever been able to hear a particular difference between Ms and Miss when spoken, but that may be more related to my hearing or something that I've not realized.

Edit:
Reading a little further, I see that it comes across as sorta creepy? I'd always parsed it as a more informal address compared to the more formal ma'am for femme folks, so this is interesting, to say the least! I suppose it reads sorta like someone calling an adult man, "young man" or "boy" despite their age, since I don't think there's something similar to miss for masculine folks.

That would come across creepy, unless from older folks and heavily dependent on context.

[–] clockwork_octopus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Also, calling a woman either Mrs or Miss defines her by her marital status. Since we are more than that, Ms is more appropriate (assuming that an honorific must be used at all).

[–] poppy@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

I understand what you mean here, except on the difference between Ms and Miss, do you mean this more in terms of writing than speaking? I ask only because I don't know that I've ever been able to hear a particular difference between Ms and Miss when spoken, but that may be more related to my hearing or something that I've not realized.

“Ms.” Is pronounced “mizzz” kinda like you’re a bee, “Miss” is pronounced “missss” like a snake.

[–] DharmaCurious@startrek.website 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you have any suggestions on sir/ma'am? I'm from the south, and genuinely don't know how to stop saying sir/ma'am. I always try to go with whatever the person is presenting, and I have tried not to say it at all. But that southernism is deeply ingrained. Like at a drive through or something, where you only have a voice to go off of it's especially bad. I do try to avoid it, but I wish there were a gender neutral version, because language just feels rude without it to someone who grew up with that instilled in them. All adult people must be addressed as ma'am or sir, regardless of age in any kind of setting that isn't close friends. If I forego it, I feel rude as fuck, and most of the time whoever you're talking to also acts offended. But the last thing I want to do is misgender someone, especially with words like sir/ma'am, that are such... Strict terms. Halp?

[–] grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'm wicked sorry, I don't have a good answer. You could try Mx and see how it feels. I've dropped sir/ma'am for folks that I know, or that appear my age or younger. I still use it for older folks I don't know out in the wild.

I, personally, never take offense at being misgendered in a Southern accent if I'm called "ma'am". I grew up in the South and to me it just feels like someone's trying their best to be polite and I take it as intended. Sometimes I also just misparse it as "man", which feels a bit informal, but whatevs. Miss still feels creepy, but I get that less now that I've hit 30.

If you're working at a drive through where there's a customer/service worker dynamic, I'd 1. go with ma'am or sir 2. accept it if someone corrects you, and 3. recognize you're more likely to be yelled at by someone for using a 'new-fangled honorific' than for misgendering someone.

Edit: Oh! I have replaced "Thank you sir/ma'am" with "Thank you, kindly" and that seems to work for me.

[–] kaito@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

One could argue that it still caters to a binary designation.