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Netanyahu. AIPAC bought two candidates right out in the open. The party welcomes foreign interference against progressives.
Israel paid directly for two candidates and committed FARA violations? That's a big claim buddy. Got any... Evidence?
AIPAC paid to defeat Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush. If you want to believe that AIPAC is actually independent of Israel, I can't make you stop believing absurdities.
I know what AIPAC is. Your claim is that they have direct funding from the government of Israel. That's illegal. You are allowed to set up a lobby group in the US that supports another country as long as the funds are obtained from within the US.
I know this might come as a shock to you, but there are many jews living in the US that happen to support Israel. You are welcome to set up any lobby group you want. Go ahead and set one up for Lebanon. But FARA is very clear about the source of the funds.
If youre not familiar with FARA take some time to acquaint your self? Or talk to a lawyer maybe? I don't know.
Your argument in favor of foreign interests interfering in US elections is essentially "well, it's perfectly legal, and if you don't like it, help another foreign interest interfere in US elections."
Are you doing it on purpose? It seems you're trying really hard. Like really hard.
That's not my argument. I think it's clear to everyone else reading you're doing it on purpose so I'm out. Cheers.
Then what is? It's fine to buy candidates as long as your PAC has the fig leaf of US funding when it operates on behalf of a foreign government? Because that's what happened. Israel didn't like the incumbents. AIPAC spent loads of money on their challengers.
Back in 2022, we were told that when the party propped up the anti-choice, pro-nra, anti-labor Henry Cuellar against his progressive challenger Jessica Cisneros, it absolutely wasn't because he was a centrist and she a progressive. It was that the party protects its incumbents in order to maintain the incumbency advantage and the proven track record for winning.
But we just saw the party do absolutely fucking nothing at all to protect the progressive incumbents Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush, while their opponents took boatloads of cash from AIPAC to sink them.
As far as I'm concerned, the party supports Netanyahu's ongoing genocide, and in exchange AIPAC spends heaps of money in opposition to progressive incumbents that party leadership refuses to protect.
I understand what you're trying to say, but you've mixed in 3 different topics into a blender to build up a narrative. This is literally a gish gallop and it's intentional.
The only thing I pushed back was that AIPAC was taking money directly from Israel and circumventing FARA, which is a common conspiratorial talking point.
Now in addition to addressing FARA, you want to talk about
incumbent advantage and popularity of these candidates
dems support for genocide,
the influence of lobbying in elections.
Ok, let's both take a step back here, I ask that you humor me for a moment. Could you please quote where I said that Israel directly funded AIPAC in contravention of FARA? I don't recall making such an assertion, but you seem to be arguing as though I did.
Accusing me of being a conspiracy theorist for noticing that AIPAC spent loads of money to essentially buy candidates is low. Calling it a gish gallop when I expanded on it is lower still.
Isn't the implication here that Israel - a foreign entity - is directing an american Lobby directly?
They can do that without so much as a dime of Israeli funds.
I don't know if you are doing it intentionally. The alt right uses AIPAC funded by Israel extremely often as an Anti-semitic talking point and also as a method to minimize any Ukraine involvement. Whether intentional or not, your initial claim insinuated this heavily as if Israel and the deepstate are pulling the strings on our politicians. The reality is there are many Jews living in the US, and those jews are sympathetic to Israel. It also happens that Israel has been a longstanding ally of the US (whether that's ethical or not is a different discussion). If you want to make the claim that AIPAC has influence in politics that's significantly different than a foreign entity crossing FARA and directing US policy. The world is not so black and white.
You see me say AIPAC and add "funded by Israel" which I never fucking said or even implied. They aren't funded by Israel. You will of course ignore this and keep lying about my position.
Dafuq? I didn't even mention Ukraine. For the record, Putin is a dictator who is also committing genocide. I'm glad we're not selling him weapons. It's too bad we're selling any to Netanyahu just so he can murder Palestinians in order to prop up his political career.
The deepstate? Dude. AIPAC shoveled tons of money at two centrists right out in the open. There was no secrecy. No attempt at secrecy. Just money for people who do what Netanyahu wants.
You're deliberately and repeatedly lying about my position. I never said that Israel is funding AIPAC. Not fucking once. Nothing you have said during this entire conversation has even approached good faith.
You can't argue against what I've actually said, so you falsely claim I said things I did not say and hold positions I do not hold. You can beat the shit outta the straw effigy you've constructed of me in my absence.
What does this mean:
Walk us through what you meant to say with that.
I already did. You added things I didn't say to construct a strawman. You and him have fun.
So there is direct foreign interference from Israel violating FARA?
Or is AIPAC an American Lobby group that is sympathetic to Israel?
Which is it?
They use only US funds when they buy politicians on behalf of Netanyahu.
Need some more straw?
Eh, as long as Netanyahu (or any foreign government) isn't instructing them directly on how the funds should be spent it's perfectly legal. Otherwise any lobby group is allowed to lobby on behalf of any interest, including an ally nation. Is it ethical? That's debatable. Is it legal? Yes, as long as FARA is not being violated.
You're welcome to start your own lobby group, Ensign.
For what it's worth, I'm not down voting you.
And it's really difficult to prove such a thing, and there's virtually no interest in pursuing it.
And I consider that to be foreign interference in US elections. Of course it's legal. Lots of shitty things are legal.
And we're back to "just start your own group to interfere with elections!" I want less interference, not more.
That's really all you have to say. We know you can't back up your claims with evidence already.
ROFL! Hilarious!
Yes, you find 14 pages of dead Palestinian infants to be the funniest shit ever. The perpetrator of the ongoing genocide in Gaza bought candidates for you.
No, I find your bullshit false accusations to be funny. Especially when it’s backed up by quite a lengthy mod log of removed misinformation and bullshit trolling attempts.
I have no sock puppet accounts. If I Had sockpuppets, my comments would have more upvotes and a lot more genocide supporters would have more downvotes. Only one comment I've ever made has been (unjustly in my opinion) removed as misinformation.
You're just mad that I didn't immediately shut up when you used "hilarious" as a rebuttal. Now you're responding to my comments multiple times, spouting conspiracy nonsense, and going through my comment history to stalk me into other threads.
News flash bud…. There’s no genocide supporters here. But ironically, I did see you get bent out of shape when someone accused you of being a Trump supporter.
Hypocrite.
If you can’t take it- don’t dish it.
You stood up for a genocide denier in the thread you followed me into on another community.
No, I didn’t.
You did. As for your ridiculous lie that there are no genocide supporters on lemmy:
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&userId=1207993
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&userId=9567319
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&userId=67131
Those are just the ones I've been able to find since my comment of 54 minutes ago, in the midst of considerable distraction. One of them is the genocide denier you defended.
EDIT: Here's another:
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&userId=67131
Sure thing, trumper. Whatever makes you feel better when you accuse everyone that disagrees with you of being a genocide supporter.
I brought receipts. Of course, you dismissed them without even looking at them and repeated the same lie about me.
I'm disengaging with you now. You have nothing and I've shown that lemmy does in fact have genocide supporters. I'll probably add to the list and use it every time some genocide apologist lies and says no one on lemmy supports genocide.
Naaah.. you just pasted links to shit you disagree with. I’ve seen how you accuse everyone that calls your shit out- “genocide supporters.”
And I’ve seen how you twist shit to mean things people never said. So spare me your rhetoric. I’m not buying it. You’re a page right out of a trumper’s playbook.
Not fooled here bud.
While I disagree with genocide support and genocide denial, and you've made it clear that you don't, everything I posted was links to the modlog. Those were comments that were removed by moderators, not me, for genocide denial, pro-genocide misinformation, etc. Genocide denial is genocide support. You've made it clear that you didn't follow any of those links or even look too closely at the URLs. I invite anyone who believes that no one on lemmy supports genocide to read them. Anyone who reads them and claims those links don't contain genocide support is a goddamned liar.
And here I am taking the bait. I said I was gonna disengage. Shame on me.
I don’t know why you keep going with this man. I already told you I’m not buying your bullshit. I’m not the first one to call you out and I won’t be the last.
You hide behind your accusations of others because it keeps the heat off of you. Classic trumper move- stay on the offense, right?
It’s not working here.
Others will read the links even if you don't. Others will know that you never even thought about following them or reading them. The links speak for themselves. Goodbye.
How do I know your bullshit is entirely ignorable?
You're not doing a very good job of ignoring it.
Scroll down, I brought receipts.
Yes, everyone who doesn't agree with you loves genocide. Let me get right on reading about that
Still ignoring me, I see.
Pointing out your tactics isn't the same thing as engaging in your bullshit content. But this isn't the first time you've equated two things falsely, is it?
If you don't want to have a conversation, don't talk to me. If you're just going to ignore any evidence I provide and repeat yourself, well, this is lemmy and that is how centrists do when people disagree with them.
The comment wasn't for you, it was for people who might not know your entire fucking schtick is to shame everyone who doesn't think exactly like you do, because everyone supports genocide but you and your small Linkerbaan-TokenBoomer cult. You all are absolutely driving people away from your cause with your lies and insults, but sure you're just so magnanimous and care about Palestinians so much.
Removed, civility.
Look at that! Four upvotes within mere minutes on a completely dead end comment chain! You’re about as authentic as they get bud!
No amount of suck puppets will make the shit you say appear any less stupid.