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Imagine putting party loyalty ahead of your own sense of right and wing. I mean, can you? Because I can't imagine it.
I can understand selling out for money. Enough significant digits on a check buys a certain amount of moral flexibility. But that dude has enough. For way less than that guy has, I'd retire someplace with warm beaches and spend my days engaged in utter debauchery.
Once a person has enough money to do that, I can't understand the need for anything more.
I wouldn't describe it as "party loyalty" but I've voted straight D for over 20 years.
2008 was the only time I felt like I was voting for "right", every other time has just been the least worst option.
2020 the candidate I voted for became president, I didn't feel like I won though. I thought moderate policy wasn't able to effectively fight fascism and Biden would move too slow to hold anyone accountable for 1/6.
I was right, but in 2024 we didn't get a primary and my only option was Kamala, and even though I had the same concerns I still had my nose. But not enough other people did. Even if they had, we still wouldn't have "won" just lost less.
If everyone put their own sense of right and wrong above loyalty to either party, we'd have a third party president. Because both parties are wildly corrupt and care more about rich donors than voters.
I think Biden was too moderate on justice, but I'd be hard pressed to think of a more progressive president than him in my lifetime. Since you said you were only happy voting for Obama in 2008, I assume you are similarly disappointed in his performance compared to his campaign, and I can't think of anyone else even in the running. So I don't judge his moderation harshly. A more progressive candidate probably can't win the swing states, and I think Kamala demonstrated that (though racism and misogyny and such also played a role, I'm sure).
As for third party, I did that for years. I think up to 2000, I always voted third party. Obviously did no good, but it was never because I wanted the candidate to win, but as a protest vote against both parties. I always imagined if they wanted my vote, they would have to adopt a platform closer to my personal way of thinking. Instead, Republicans sprinted hard right away from me, so now I've got no one to vote for but Dems.
I have no party loyalty at all (don't even see myself as a Democrat), but I thought Obama was a good leader even if he wasn't everything I wanted. Same with Biden. He doesn't get nearly enough credit for the "soft landing" and one of the lowest inflation rates anywhere and his dedication to student loan relief. But what I really loved about him was he wasn't Trump, and I admired Kamala for the way she also wasn't Trump.
Even if I were still a conservative, I would still vote for a moderate Democrat on that basis. I don't understand why McConnell didn't.
Huh?
I think you're confusing an 81 year old who finally stopped fighting against social change and someone fighting for social change...
And Obama was far from perfect, but waaaaaay more progressive than Joe. Joe was literally bundled with Obama so old white people wouldn't be scared of the young smooth talking Black guy with a progressive campaign.
What logic makes Biden the most progressive president of your life time?
And that's an opinion, if you believe it to be true. I struggle to understand why that means it's enough when it clearly wasn't or trump wouldn't be going back to the White House....
Quick edit:
Lol
What about his dedication to abortion too? Or anything else he promised, barely tried to do, then immediately called voters ignorant for thinking a Dem president with a Dem House and Dem Senate could accomplish anything.
After running a primary campaign focused solely on how only he could get Senate Republicans to vote for the Dem party platform.
Stop giving credit for what they say they want to do, give credit after they do something
What progressive policies did Obama enact besides the completely watered down ACA—that was a Republican plan? He could've pushed for single-payer when the Dems had full control and didn't.
What else did he do? Because I remember him being largely a milquetoast pro-corporate Dem who was about as progressive as Bill Clinton.
He DID push for single payer. It was Joe Lieberman who fucked us over with that, not Obama. As you know, presidents aren't kings and the policies they want to enact must go through Congress.
Oh...
Only accomplishments count now?
Man. Good thing you can only defend Biden or attack everyone else, if you could do both at the same time you might actually have a point
Because Biden's list of accomplishments is pretty much "didn't die in office".
Everything else is shit he "tried" to accomplish
In what world did Kamala not run as a conservative democrat? She talked about her glock more than climate change, sucked up to every Republican willing to be decent for once, and took the stage how many times with Liz Cheney while not allowing even 60 seconds of speech from a pro-Palestine lawmaker or advocate at the DNC, and went hard right on the border. And shit at this point I've probably brain dumped other events that had my jaw on the floor. She spent most of the last month holding hands with as many Republicans as she could, trying to get as many R votes as she could (spoiler alert - it was precious few).
And I'm not even super far left compared to a lot of potential D voters. I voted for her anyhow, but angrily by that point. She killed the motivation of many likely D voters all to rub noses with republicans and conservatives in the most crucial weeks of the campaign. To suck up to the very people who got us to this point in the first place and pretend every last fucking one of them wasn't complicit.
All I can remember now from her campaign:
Edited to add - and that's the last time I cast an angry vote for D. I've done it enough times. They need to get their shit together, or stop pretending they are anything other than corporate owned slightly less evil conservatives compared to R. If I can't feel good about pulling the lever for D next time, I'll pull it for someone else.
You still chose based on right and wrong, and at the end of the day that’s all most people can do in your fucked up system and that’s ok.
People like McConnel are the ones with the real power to create the options that the people vote on and when they just vote in line with what their party says every single time they have simply failed as representatives of the people.
Buddy, voting for someone that actively supports a genocide isnt "right" anyway you cut it.
It's "less worse".
And if you don't think I'm saying it eloquently enough:
https://letterfromjail.com/
It ain't just a race thing, it's a class thing.
So MLK's quote is very relevant to how Moderates aren't our allies, they're actively working against us.
Easy, bud.
You had two bad options in front of you and used your sense of right and wrong to choose the one that would hurt the least number of people and who wasn’t a cartoonish villain. It was the right thing to do given the circumstances. The wrong thing would have been to be “right” and claim “both sides” as the excuse for further enabling a literal fascist.
If you really want to beat yourself up over the fact that your options were bad then by all means, be my guest, but don’t come at me like I was saying that being a moderate is some great thing.
The problem is we haven't had fair primaries since 2008 and even the "less bad" option is bad.
There is a very small wing of the Dem party who takes a shit ton of money to (legally) rig the primary
And we have to face facts that they're willing to lose the general because the only way they lose power in the party is if a progressive wins and appoints a progressive DNC chair. So because the primary isn't legally an election and they're allowed to put a finger on the scale, they ensure progressives can't win the primary.
Continuing to vote for the lesser of two evils, just ensures our only two options are evil.
We're standing in the middle of a game of chicken where both drivers would rather die than lose.
You might think it's not worth talking about, and while I disagree you can have an opinion.
But why try to stop people from talking about it?
Isn't now the perfect time?
I’m not trying to stop people talking about it. You said it felt bad that you can’t vote right or wrong because both sides feel terrible and the only choice is going for the one that is less terrible. I’m saying that if you voted Dem you still put effort towards doing the right thing. If you really want to feel bad about it from even the angle I’ve been taking this whole time then I’m sorry for interrupting your kink or whatever.