this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2023
729 points (99.2% liked)

Technology

60056 readers
4010 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] SuperSaiyanSwag@lemmy.zip 18 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Can someone explain to me what this means? I’m technologically inept when it comes to privacy, slowly getting better day-by-day thanks to Lemmy.

[–] lustrum@sh.itjust.works 81 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What does “without any disks in use” mean?

  • If the computer is powered off, moved or confiscated, there is no data to retrieve.
  • We get the operational benefits of having fewer breakable parts. Disks are among the components that break often. Therefore, switching away from them makes our infrastructure more reliable.
  • The operational tasks of setting up and upgrading package versions on servers become faster and easier.
  • Running the system in RAM does not prevent the possibility of logging. It does however minimise the risk of accidentally storing something that can later be retrieved.
    https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2022/1/12/diskless-infrastructure-beta-system-transparency-stboot/
[–] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

While mostly true, there are ways to preserve ram if the device is confiscated.

Your local PD likely couldn’t pull it off, but if one of the larger abbreviation agencies were to get involved, data on RAM isn’t a huge hurdle. Assuming no one flips the power switch, at least.

Yeah, freezing and dumping RAM is a well known attack, even happening at some airports with laptops. But it still requires very recently powered ram, basically still in operation before extraction. It's a big step toward security at least.

[–] lustrum@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I guess it's going to stop any standard agencies with a warrant. Confiscating the machine for it to sit in a warehouse until some forensic techs get their hands on it.

[–] blegeg@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'm not an expert but I think : The site you visit only sees the VPNs info. Which is how you maintain some anonymity while browsing. However, if your VPN keeps logs, then you can still be tracked, just at a different place. Some say they don't keep logs, and you'd have to trust that.

RAM is considered volatile memory, so each time the server turns off, it loses all data. This is compared to disk (hard drives of whatever type) which retain memory even if the server turns off.

In theory, this ram only server prevents them from keeping logs (like which user went where) since the server wouldn't even have a place to store it.

Edit: lustrums post is more accurate and has info that this doesn't prevent logging per se, but could prevent accidental logging. I.e. they can't hire a forensic computer specialist to parse through operating system logs to try to find info they didn't otherwise log elsewhere.

[–] t0m5k1@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The site you visit only sees the VPNs info. Which is how you maintain some anonymity while browsing.

A VPN just changes your IP, all your browser info is still visible to the website.

[–] trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It does hide where your traffic is going to the ISP, no?

Mullvad also has their own browser that has some security features that prevent fingerprinting while also keeping an okay level of usability.

[–] t0m5k1@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, all the ISP will see is the vpn tunnel. If you don't trust the ISP why are you with them?

When you access a website with https the ISP will not see what happens inside that connection as it too is encrypted.

If you run your own DNS server that uses root hints the ISP will see even less.

By using a vpn you're placing your trust on the provider and there is nothing stopping them filtering the outbound connection from all their VPN endpoints to collect and sell the meta data your hiding from you ISP.

All VPN providers just talk about logging but nothing about meta data collection, funny that 🤔

[–] trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You live in a world where you should not use the internet ever

[–] t0m5k1@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Chances are I was online before you was even a thought.

Helps if you keep an eye on the bigger picture that vpn is a tiny part of.

[–] trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

chances are i had sex with your mom lol

[–] t0m5k1@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Good try, she's dead. Thanks.

[–] mkwt@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

A normal computer is usually constantly writing little bits and pieces of data to disk. But data on the disk might accidentally remain on the disk even if it's not intended. Then that data could be read later by someone else who is spying on VPN users .

There's also a common assumption that data on disk storage may leave behind remnants even after it's been overwritten. (Magnetic disks may leave behind some magnetic signatures. Flash drives will stop using sectors that are worn out, potentially leaving data there.) And state actors like NSA might have some capability to recover this ghost data if they get a hold of the actual drives.

There's a general understanding that data on RAM is irrevocably destroyed within a short time after the device loses power. So attacks on RAM data have to occur in real time while the data is in use. (There may be some attacks that preserve RAM after power down using low temperatures and liquid nitrogen).

[–] Aatube@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

No data is supposed to be readable after you shut it off. There are ways to restore it though but it’s still vastly better in leaving no trace.

[–] cel922@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

It means that even though Mullvad already doesn’t log anything about their users activities, there is no persistent storage on the servers, so as soon as it is powered off or raided by The Agencies, there is absolutely nothing to retrieve from it.

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

If the computer is unplugged, there's nothing left on a hard drive to show what state it was in. This means nobody malicious can physically remove their servers and gain information about customers.