this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2025
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PSA: IF THE TROLLS DO MIGRATE HERE, DO NOT FEED THEM. BLOCK AND REPORT IF THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN HAVING A PRODUCTIVE, CIVIL CONVERSATION.
I'm not interested in having a civil conversation with fascists either
Unless they come out the gate swinging, please be careful. I don't know about you, but I want to get as many people as possible on board with combating the far right.
Attacking somebody who is legitimately trying to learn will only entrench them deeper in their prior beliefs. It might take a few sentences to find out if they are being genuine, but if you can change their perspective, it is worth it.
You basically can't teach conservatives. If they were capable of learning and changing they wouldn't be conservatives in the first place. Consider that the majority of self avowed conservatives in the US literally believe the world is less than 10,000 years old created as is and jeebus is coming back real soon now. Literally 30% of the US population believes this!
White supremacy and the flat earth are actually gaining ground in this group.
People do wake up from cults. It takes a lot of work on themselves to reach that point, however, and the most transformative moments (i.e. any epiphanies about their behavior or beliefs) will likely happen when they're alone, outside of the public sphere.
That is to say, you're unlikely to personally witness somebody break out of a cult. Yet, it still happens.
Does that make it worth helping them "see the light"? I can't say. What I can say is that there are people who've been there, and there are resources available to help those in cult recovery. (Make no mistake, this is absolutely a cult.)
The best hope we've got right now is that as more things turn to shit, more people will begin to question things. Instead of reflexively downvoting or attacking someone who admits to having once voted for Trump, we've got to listen to what they say happened afterward. I want to hear people share their stories of disenchantment. I want those stories to be spread far and wide, to people who might be questioning Trumpism but who're surrounded by his supporters and scared to make a move. They're the people who need to know that it's okay to change their minds. They're going to need to know that they'll be accepted by someone if they "deflect," and we need to be prepared to welcome them to sanity.
We shouldn't respond with comments like, "iT's aBouT tiMe" or "Where have you BEEN the last 8 years?" (Both are paraphrased from comments I read elsewhere on here this morning.) I know it's tempting to give out some sort of I told you so, but it's not constructive and can push an ex-cult member away. We want people to turn a new leaf, and that means supporting those who admit to having been wrong.
(I know this took a turn from the original comment. I don't intend this personally for you, OP. But after seeing how people react so aggressively to everything lately, I felt something like this needed to be said to Lemmy.)
We couldn't defeat the Nazis or the Confederates with dialogue. They are not going to even let us vote them out no matter how badly they do.
Yes, I agree. At no point did I ever propose such a dialogue. I'm talking about supporting those that already chose to leave.
And that's not even getting to climate change denial.
These people are incapable of critical thought.
With the coming govt. actions starting to more directly and visibly affect people's lives, it will probably wake up (lol) at least a few people. Assuming they are all evil will harm us more than help us. At the end of the day, we are all human. We need all the help we can get and if they are offering, it would be rude to dismiss them.
I ask you to also be careful!
you don't need to feed the trolls to help them see the light.
Treat it like an authoritative (but not authoritarian) parent:
You don't let the kid do whatever inappropriate shit (that is a neglecting parent style), but you do state firmly the rules and give the consequence (authoritative) without making them fear you through spanking or other kinds of abuse (authoritarian).
I agree we should not be authoritarian.
But we should also not be neglectful!
Specific example:
If someone comes saying that trump did a roman salute, the authoritative answer is: "The nazi salute is a roman salute and both are used to promote fascism (link to wikipedia)".
Simply and blunt, yet "non-judgemental" answer
Now if they reply saying shit like how they are actually different, then just call their bullshit off by saying things like: "I see no reason for someone to defend a roman or nazi salute unless that someone is a nazi. I really hope you aren't a nazi, but if you are, know that you're in the wrong. Period."
Then stop any sort of further replies and start reporting if they keep harping on this (it would be similar to the time out that parents do to younger child).
Legitimately trying to learn is the vaccine against fascism. I'm not sure there's a cure.
There is only the one cure that we've found so far...