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this post was submitted on 07 Feb 2025
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People here still blaming this on minority voters are deafeningly silent on party leadership holding the coalition hostage over AIPAC funding
Stop directing your anger at people being robbed of basic representation instead of political actors who are gleefully accepting blood money to turn against their constituents and a blind eye to genocide
We know they're war-criminals. There's still a difference between that and leveling the place for a hotel. Trump gleefully accepted $100m from Adelson for the west bank.
Stop assuming we're pro-dems and not just anti-trump.
This is the shit that drives me nuts. No matter how many fucking times you explain it, they just cannot wrap their heads around this for some reason. Or they refuse to.
I'm not accusing anyone of being pro-dems, I'm pointing out that this line of reporting is intentionally misdirecting anger at voters - who can literally only react to the policies and governance of the democrats as they are - instead of the democrats sabotaging themselves for thinking they could have their cake and eat it too.
Thinking that the democrats could participate in a highly-publicized genocide and not lose any voters is folly, but then turning around blaming the voters for the loss of votes is beyond hubris and well into delusion. Anyone with eyes could see this loss coming from a mile away and was screaming at the democrats to change course.
But the voters are to blame. So is the DNC. Both suck...bad. Unfortunately, the majority of Americans, including their political representative, are more concerned with propping up failing capitalism than actually fixing solvable world issues. At this point, I find it impossible to envision creating enough public and political support for actual change unless the entire economic system burns down. My fear is that instead of galvanizing the working class, ian economic collapse is only going to create a vacuum to be filled by the next fascist to secure even greater control.
If you have a practical solution, i'd love to hear it.
Lenin actually described this pattern, theorizing that "fascism is capitalism in decay."
There are a lot of marxists of a variety of bents who have their own theories on how to achieve a socialist state, but most of them guess that an advanced capitalist state has very little likelihood of transitioning without a revolutionary vanguard or violent class conflict.
It's a reason why socialist projects almost exclusively appear in pre-industrial parts of the world - but a classless communist state is only really achievable in more advanced post-industrial societies because they'd actually have the infrastructure to get to post-scarcity. So what ends up happening usually is either a protracted socialist "dictatorship of the proletariat", or a social democratic state that is slowly undermined by austerity until it returns to a more conventional capitalist organization.
All that to say: no, I do not think the US even meets the bare minimum of class consciousness required to avoid a fascistic collapse. The only good news is that, historically, fascist movements tend to burn out fairly quickly unless they have a competent leader. So, there's that.
Unfortunately, this is usually what happens when governments/societies collapse. Lot of people on the internet talking about burning it all down and starting over, not realizing that usually just makes things worse.
It doesn't matter if Democrats aren't picture perfect. Anyone willing to rub brain cells together knows they're infinitely better at governing than Republicans, including in regards to Palestine, and should vote accordingly. I don't need the Democrats to cup my balls and talk dirty to me to know the smarter move is to vote for them. I don't need to be courted every fucking election or my vote goes to a proto-fascist or I don't vote at all.
The majority of the fault is squarely on voters, not Democrats. Because they didn't fucking inform themselves responsibly.
A little less than half of all eligible voters don't vote in any given federal election - multiple factors more than the margin of every race; can we blame those people for every atrocity conducted on our behalf, too?
The outcome of every election since our founding was determined by how many people the candidates can get to turn out for them -that didn't suddenly change this time. Democrats chose to spend their efforts trying to disabuse their constituents of their moral objections and deny any real domestic reform, and they lost because of it.
Votes for Dems completely unconditionally and demands others do the same "Why does everyone keep assuming we're pro-Dem? Don't they know that we send negative energy waves through our mind palaces towards zionist Dems all the time?"
Boy, I really love when people on the internet think they know a single fucking thing about me. Every conversation I have on here about this topic always ends up with the person making some ridiculous straw man. You have no real response, so you instead just create a shitty argument that nobody here made and then act all smug when you "shut it down." It's so predictable.
I have been on Lemmy for the grand total of one election, guy, how the fuck do you come to the conclusion that I, "vote for Dems completely unconditionally"? You fuckers are allergic to good faith discussion.
Oh, my mistake. So if you don't vote for them unconditionally then you think it's acceptable to place conditions on voting for them. Would you say that "not supporting genocide" is a reasonable condition, or do you draw the line at something worse than genocide?
Oh my God. You did it. You were right to keep trying because it worked, you're 100% correct. Your incredibly deep and insightful analysis was extremely valuable. Good job.
It's like you know me better than anyone else I've ever met. Would you like to exchange information? I have been in need of a new lover.
Nothing I've said has made any assumptions about you at all. I'm merely describing your express position. You're using sarcasm as a cheap trick to mask your inability to defend it, but I'm not sure who you're supposed to be fooling.
Gaza is fully leveled and Trump had nothing to do with it.
Not yet it isn't and yes, he did. He announced it the other day. The ethnic clensing of 2M people
I'm not assuming you're pro-dems, I'm pointing out that their loss is entirely attributable to their own political mis-calculation on top of their efforts to gaslight Americans about their roll and knowledge of the crimes being committed on their behalf.
Blaming voters for reacting to the Democrats' policy decisions - including the moderates they alienated - is simply yet another attempt to obscure the facts that lead us to this moment.
Probably more to do with the mass delusion and post truth world we live in.
And yes, enabling the greater evil is a failing of the people who voted against their interests because less evil wasn’t good enough.
Please elaborate what the party leadership could've done differently to not alienate the other voting blocks mentioned.
They could have defended the lives of Palestinians and acknowledged that the genocide was happening.
It was Biden's press secretary and SOS who got up on a podium everyday and assured the press and those "other voters" that Israel wasn't doing anything wrong. They drew that line themselves, not anyone who was protesting the genocide.
How short is your memory?
Biden expressed disapproval multiple times.
https://apnews.com/article/biden-netanyahu-3591fb5f82b22cf8e5d1060fccaef115
https://www.axios.com/2024/10/17/biden-netanyahu-sinwar-gaza-war
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/13/biden-speaks-with-israels-netanyahu-urges-immediate-ceasefire-in-gaza
Whether intentional or not, you are spreading misinformation. The same kind that got Trump and Musk into the Oval Office. And people are upvoting you. Congrats.
This one is kinda funny to me because people interpret trump saying nearly the same words is evidence of his genocidal intent.
But none of those 'statements of disapproval' conveys the severity of their literal fucking war crimes and genocide, which would be a minimum (I would think) to convince a skeptical zionist voter that maybe some intervention is justified. Not to mention that Harris repeatedly refused to commit to withholding lethal aid every time she was asked during her candidacy.
There's no reality in which the U.S. was going to seriously jeopardize its relationship with our closest ally in the middle east.
Americans had two options:
A side that expressed disapproval of Israel's actions and floated stopping arms shipments, which Biden floated.
Or
A side with a guy who literally said Israel should finish the job and is now saying he wants to turn Gaza into a vacation destination.
I'll let you do the math.
Maybe you just suffer from a lack of imagination - and anyway what good is having allies if they're on the genocidal side of things? Seems like maybe we're the baddies.
I find arguments that the non-voters shouldn't be blamed for Trump because party leadership didn't properly encourage them to vote for Harris idiotic. Everyone has a duty to educate themselves about their vote. Shifting blame to the DNC is both patronizing and destructive. The DNC sucks.... You know who else sucks? people who didn't stand up against Trump. Those people are grown ass adults who actively helped a fascist by doing nothing but bitch.
A-Fucking-Men