this post was submitted on 06 Mar 2025
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[–] Allonzee@lemmy.world 42 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (67 children)

Sports are games.

Games are supposed to be inclusive and fun.

Society taking games deathly serious (and equivocating it with academic merit, aka serious pursuits) is the problem.

People rioting and murdering if the game didn't work out for their team is the problem. Putting billion dollar stakes on games is the problem.

Trans people or any people wanting to play games with their friends should be what society fosters and nurtures as the entire fucking point of society's existence. Something something... planting trees something something knowing they'll never sit under...

Nope? let's bring on the climate change induced extinction then. If our values are hyper competitive, dog eat dog bullshit from labor to fucking games, we should go extinct.

[–] GaMEChld@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago (16 children)

Games are supposed to be fair. Unless you're going to completely desegregate men and women's sports, there's a real biological argument to be made here. To pretend otherwise is delusional.

[–] yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 2 days ago (15 children)

There is zero biological argument because you cannot make two categories based on sex which encompass everyone.

Example 1:

A cis woman with a genetic mutation which incrases her testosterone levels into the range of cis men. Should she be banned from female competitive sports?

Example 2:

A cis woman with XY gonadal dysgenesis. She has XY chromosomes but the Y chromosome is mutated and doesn't function as it should which causes a "female" phenotype. Should she be banned from female competitive sports?

Example 3:

A trans woman in the 95th percentile of men with regards to physical strength. She is in the 10th percentile of women after transitioning. Should she be banned from female competitive sports?

Example 4:

A trans woman with Klinefelter syndrome and XXY genes. She has naturally very low levels of testosterone and she doesn't require testosterone blockers after transitioning and taking estrogen. Even before transitioning she had less muscle mass, weaker bones and wider hips than the average man as a result of her low testosterone. Should she be banned from female competitive sports?

Example 5:

An African woman who would be in the 1st percentile of man if she were one, both in terms of physical attributes (size, muscle mass, heart size) and competitive results. Some "scientists" argue her race makes her less of a woman and more of a man. Should she be banned from female competitive sports?

There is zero risk of these people "replacing" cis women by the way. Yes, their performance may be greater than that of comparable cis women without any genetical mutations beyond a certajn point.

Yet risk is calculated as [severity] * [likelihood]. And due to the low likelihood stemming from their very low prevalence in the general population, there is no reason to ban them.

Women's sports is about representation of women. Trans women are part of that group, cis women with genetic mutations are part of that group, racial minorities are part of that group. You cannot exclude some women and claim this group is "fair" and representative.

[–] elatedCatfish@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Make a trans league if there’s really such a demand for it. Problem solved.

[–] yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

A separate but equal league? Sure sounds appealing to many to segregate trans people into their own categories.

May as well apply it to bathrooms as well while we're at it.

[–] elatedCatfish@lemm.ee 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

What, the same way biological males and females are “segregated” in sports?

May as well just make bathrooms with individual stalls/rooms. Then everyone will shut up about this stupid crap.

I don’t care what you got going on down there at the end of the day, but you’re on some crazy shit if you think it’s fair to make trans women that have gone through puberty compete against other women. It’s just simple biology, nothing evil about that.

[–] yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Do you believe segregating a minority group making up 1-2% of the population will not have discriminatory effects? That there will be equal access to funding, scholarships, competition and sport leagues?

You can't seriously believe this. Isn't it plainly obvious that this would be an excuse to ban trans people from doing any sports? That any sports club will just argue there aren't enough trans people to allow them to be members?

And I'd seriously like to know how it is unfair for cis women to have to compete against trans women in chess. Right now trans women are barred from competing in any women's leagues regardless of when they started transitioning by the way.

How do trans people have any advantage in hundreds of other sports, from gymnastics to ballet to competitive diving - all of which have a more or less significant artistic element?

By the way, there are already discriminatory regulations barring certain cis women in the name of "fairness":

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone_regulations_in_women%27s_athletics

Also, what a coincidence:

At the 2020 Olympics a number of athletes, all from African countries, were withdrawn from their events because they did not meet the eligibility regulations.

Sure sucks for these Africans that they "randomly" happened to not meet these criteria. It couldn't possibly be that certain ethnicities are more or less likely to have certain genetics.

[–] elatedCatfish@lemm.ee 1 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

If there’s a demand for it it will happen. And chess isn’t a real sport lol It’s as much a sport as “competitive gaming”

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