this post was submitted on 13 Mar 2025
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    [–] lemon@sh.itjust.works 40 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

    I’m OOTL. Are these actual issues people have with the project?

    C++ might not be as memory-safe as Rust, but let’s not pretend a Rust code base wouldn’t be riddled with raw pointers.

    BSD tells me the team probably wants Ladybird to become not just a standalone browser but also a new competing base for others to build a browser on top of – a Chromium competitor. Even though BSD wouldn’t force downstream projects to contribute back upstream, they probably would, since that’s far less resource-intensive than maintaining a fork. (Source: me, who works on proprietary software, can’t use GPL stuff, but contributes back to my open-source dependencies.)

    [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 11 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (2 children)

    BSD tells me the team probably wants Ladybird to become not just a standalone browser but also a new competing base for others to build a browser on top of

    skeletor facts until-we-meet-again meme format, saying that every major web browser uses a rendering engine with a copyleft license

    [–] lemon@sh.itjust.works 2 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

    Don’t have time to factcheck so going to take your word for it. Interesting bit of knowledge! Honestly wouldn’t have thought that. How else are Chrome, Edge, Brave, Arc, Vivaldi and co getting away with building proprietary layers on top of a copyleft dependency?

    I’m no legal expert. All I know is that when I’m picking dependencies at work, if it’s copyleft, I leave it on the table. I love the spirit of GPL, but I don’t love the idea of failing an audit by potential investors because of avoidable liabilities.

    [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 11 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

    The three currently-maintained engines which (at their feature intersection) effectively define what "the web" is today are Mozilla's Gecko, Apple's WebKit, and Google's Blink.

    The latter two are both descended from KHTML, which came from the Konquerer browser which was first released as part of KDE 2.0 in 2000, and thus both are LGPL licensed.

    After having their own proprietary engine for over two decades, Microsoft stopped developing it and switched to Google's fork of Apple's fork of KDE's free software web engine.

    Probably Windows will replace its kernel with Linux eventually too, for better or worse :)

    How else are Chrome, Edge, Brave, Arc, Vivaldi and co getting away with building proprietary layers on top of a copyleft dependency?

    They're allowed to because the LGPL (unlike the normal GPL) is a weak copyleft license.

    [–] lemon@sh.itjust.works 2 points 16 hours ago

    Thanks for teaching me something new!

    So Chromium is based on Blink, which is LGPL – a less viral GPL. Hence, it can serve as a dependency in closed-source software.

    As to the shared heritage of these well-established projects – I don’t know how else to interpret it other than a testament to the complexity of building a decent browser engine.

    Btw, quick shout out to Orion, a rare WebKit browser by the makers of Kagi that’s apparently coming to Linux as well. I’m a monthly supporter. Even though I still mostly use Vivaldi, it’s been coming along really nicely. Proprietary software but idc. I appreciate their unspoken mission statement: pay or be the product. (No-one should be a product, obviously, but that’s capitalism.)

    [–] Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

    What about safari? Doesn't it still use webkit?

    [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 1 points 18 hours ago

    yep. (see my other comment in this thread)

    [–] dreugeworst@lemmy.ml 35 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

    well, its possible to check if a rust equivalent would be riddled with raw pointers: just check the Servo code base.

    personally I think its a good thing to have another browser implementation, regardless of specific choices they make about language or license

    [–] onlinepersona@programming.dev 18 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    C++ might not be as memory-safe as Rust, but let’s not pretend a Rust code base wouldn’t be riddled with raw pointers.

    I'm curious. Why do you believe the last statement to be true?

    Anti Commercial-AI license

    [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 hours ago

    I don't know if it's riddled with it or not, but what I (think to) know is that one of Rust's goal is to minimize them. No need for raw pointers when handling lists and buffers most of the time.

    [–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 2 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

    Did you paste the wrong link?

    [–] poplargrove@lemmy.world 9 points 20 hours ago

    They have that under all their comments.

    [–] thann@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

    If you cant tell from just looking at the relative successes of BSD and linux that copyleft licenses are better than I dont know how to convince you of anything

    [–] pmk@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

    By that logic proprietary licenses are best for desktop OSs because Windows has the biggest market share?

    [–] thann@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    Windows has lost more market share in the last 20 years than any other operating system

    [–] vfsh@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    To.... MacOS. Yet another proprietary closed source license

    [–] thann@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

    Actually macos was based off of BSD, but there were no basically contributions back to the community, so its whithered away. meanwhile linux is running in every sattelite and scientific insrument, it runs every router and nearly every server that are the internet. Microsoft google and apple all begrudginly make linux better while they make the operating systems they sell worse

    [–] MITM0@lemmy.world -3 points 23 hours ago

    Actually to linux, but hey nice try

    [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 1 points 21 hours ago

    It's the only operating system with that much market share to lose.