this post was submitted on 23 Mar 2025
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A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The most popular seem to be lighthearted clever little truths, hidden in daily life.
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Yes, that is the premise. To put it as simply as possible, a diesel generator powering an electric drivetrain can always run in it's peak efficiency band. A Diesel Engine directly moving a vehicle is not. If you had a perfectly flat course, and vehicle a running at constant speeds for extended periods of time at a speed that matches the peak efficiency of the diesel engine, then it would be the better option.
The fact is, hybrid systems are more efficient in real world conditons. We have hybrid cars all over the place, which are more efficient than their gas only counterparts.
The efficiency of a very good and big Diesel generator is ~50%running in its optimal state. You lose about 15%-25% from charging the battery. You already lost a minimum of 65% of energy before the car even rolled, which results in 35% of energy left.
A modern diesel car's efficiency is >40%.
Hybrids are mainly so good because they win brake energy and such back by charging the battery, also because you charge it at the power plant, not a diesel generator. They don't charge the battery with their motor.
Trains are hybrids because there arent Power lines everywhere. They dont use the motor to charge the battery either.
It's more efficient than a gas powered car though, as theyre at about 25% efficiency. Not if you charge the accumulator with Gas though. Physics, I tell ya. You cant win energy by converting it more often.
Edit: When you charge the battery from the power plant, it's efficiency is about 65%.
Yes, that's at least part of the point.
Where do you think they charge from? Answer carefully, I drove a hybrid for the last 10 years, so I know where that energy comes from.
I answered that just one sentence earlier.
Or do you mean when you plug your car into the charging station?
Dont tell me you charged your car for 10 years with a diesel generator because you thought it would be more efficient.
Edit: There's different types of Hybrids by the way. Judging by your replies, I assume you have one that only gets it power from braking energy and heat and going downhill, and doesnt have a plug.
Almost all of them charge via regeneration, so they do charge from the motor. My particular hybrid would also charge from the motor while in neutral (why spin the engine and do nothing with that rotation?) Plug-ins just have the option to top up from another source, but they will still charge from braking.
Your car wouldn't switch off or to electric when idling, since that's even more effective?
So, are you still arguing that charging EVs with diesel generators is more efficient than driving a diesel car?
Only if you are still arguing that...
BEVs create a significant amount of waste heat compared to ICEs. Diesel electric trains and hybrid cars are less efficient than their ICE only counterparts and logistics professionals have been wrong for decades.
Where did I argue that? Are you now putting words into my mouth?
Just admit you were wrong dude, it isnt that hard.
No need to admit anything. Here you are insinuating that my statement about the heat generated by EVs and ICEs is not correct...
That was your primary response to my statement that EVs generate an insignificant amount of heat compared to ICEs.
You also said this...
And the answer, which I gave you is that a diesel generator is not the same thing operating under the same load and conditions as a diesel car.
I also provided 3 real world examples of hybrid systems that outperform their combustion counterparts. I will admit that I was unable to locate specifically a hybrid diesel car, or an electric car with a diesel range extender.
Did you forget that the argument started that EVs that were charged with a diesel generator is more effective than a regular diesel vehicle?
Based on that false claim you argued in favour of hybrids using the false pretense from the start, and that what I discredited by "put a diesel in the trunk", because by your logic that would be more efficient than a diesel.
You even continued to argue in favour until I did the calculation. Even then you tried to weasel your way out by claiming your motor would indirectly charge your battery, which it doesnt.
I was never arguing that winning back lost energy with a secondary electrical system doesnt make sense. But that wasnt what you claimed. You wrongly assumed hybrids were using the motor to charge the battery, which they don't.
Your numbers are not correct. Can you cite sources for them?
Can you clarify this? The motor does both directly and indirectly charge the battery in most (if not all) hybrid cars.
Yep there it is again. Definitely not trusting your armchair understanding of physics and automotive engineering.
Tell you what. Cite one example of a production vehicle where they removed they hybrid system and gained fuel economy, and I'll admit that ICEs alone are much more efficient. Until then, you're wrong, I'm right, and I have 3 real world examples to back it up.
Lol, you just claim my numbers arent correct because?
But you're right, I compared the best stationary diesel engine with 50% efficiency instead of a usual one, and used the low end of efficiency of the diesel car. But that was in your favour.
There you go:
https://www.ourmechanicalcenter.com/archives/12117
https://www.tuev-nord.de/de/privatkunden/verkehr/auto-motorrad-caravan/elektromobilitaet/wirkungsgrad/
https://go-e.com/en/magazine/ev-charging-losses
https://phys.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/College_Physics/College_Physics_1e_(OpenStax)/07%3A_Work_Energy_and_Energy_Resources/7.06%3A_Conservation_of_Energy
Hi, ich hab mir grad den ganzen Thread angeschaut und muss noch schnell meinen senf dazu geben. Generator betriebene Elektrofahrzeuge sind tatsächlich effizienter als direkte Verbrenner im Realbetrieb aufgrund mehrerer Punkte:
P.S. i assumed from previous comments that you're also a German (or at least german speaking) so I kept my comment in german. If I'm wrong and you (or a random reader) want a translation, just comment and I'll do a translation tomorrow.
Edison's series hybrid electric truck gets 21mpg, beating comparable diesel only semi at 6-8mpg.
Took a bit, but there is your real world example.
You also still don't have a real world example of a car that gained efficiency after removing the hybrid system.