-43
this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2026
-43 points (31.0% liked)
Memes
55921 readers
1301 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 7 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
The fact that the EU is a voluntary coalition does not at all stand against the fact that many member states have been seeing fascist upswings, and that all depend on imperialism and neocolonialism to function.
Basically, lol
"Nazi state"
Looks inside
Contains 27 states, most of which are not nazi-run
Completely and utterly stupid.
Many of them have fascist movements either in power or coming to power, and all rely on imperialism and neocolonialism.
How do you explain that many reuropean right-wing parties are pro-Russia?
Russia tends to be critically supported by the left, while being admired by the far-right for having hard power. The far-right like Russia for being a capitalist power that cracks down on the LGBTQ community, while the left critically supports it in undermining imperialism and neocolonialism.
"Many of them"
"Either in power or coming to power"
"Rely on"
The claims have changed so much it seems that you also disagree with the meme at this point.
If you felt the need to add all those qualifiers (not wrong, btw), then it's clear that you wouldn't describe the EU as an "imperialist nazi state" either.
And that's before we ask other things, eg why Ukraine and not Russia?
Because it's dumb propaganda
I would not communicate OP's broader point the same way, but I wouldn't go so far as to say I disagree with it. The EU is a coaliton of right-wing imperialist states, this is true. Russia isn't imperialist, while Ukraine is a tool of imperialism much like Israel.
Not really all right wing but perhaps compared to your politics. Or mine tbh
I'm confused about this. I checked to see if I had the right definition, just in case, and this is wikipedia's:
How does this not perfectly describe what Russia is doing in Ukraine?
Do you have an alternative definition you're working with?
All EU member states are capitalist and depend on imperialism and neocolonialism. In that sense, they are all right wing, left wing countries would be like China and Cuba.
As for imperialism, the first part of the definition is vague enough that it applies to countries like Burkina Faso kicking France out of Africa, while the second would make the Statesian North annexing the confederacy "imperialism." Wikipedia affirmatively takes the definition of imperialism that makes it as vague as possible, reducing it to a policy preference rather than a materialist system with definite causes and necessary conclusions.
Imperialism in the modern era, as course of fact, is a stage in capitalist development. When markets are fully saturated domestically, capital expands outward. Once industrial and bank capital grow, they merge and dominate the entire economy, resulting in the dominance of finance capital in the economy and an export of capital, rather than commodities. This is how the west plunders the world in the modern era, and what Russia cannot do.
I see where you're coming from now. I think if you define imperialism in that way, it makes sense that you would consider all of those countries imperialist.
But this whole description seems weird to me. Are there any powerful capitalist countries that could avoid this?
And I still don't think Russia could possibly escape this definition. They have BRICS and are a major oil trader. They physically are trying to occupy another country right now. They use Russian language and state media to influence Eastern European countries in particular.
Capitalist countries cannot avoid becoming imperialist as they grow, but the pond is finite, with a gang of imperialist countries at the top. This forces the rest of the world into contention with imperialism. As for Russia, trade and BRICS are not imperialism. Russia has an absolutely paltry sum of finance capital, and runs largely on production and export of commodities.
So Russia with more finance capital and less commodities trade would be imperialist, but the way it is, they aren't?
I think I get what you're saying now. But it seems so arbitrary. Why should I give a shit who's imperialist by this specific definition? It would basically make 0% difference to how much Russia is a problem for the world
The problem is that the entire world is already divided up between the imperialist powers. Rising capitalist powers cannot simply take their imperialist share, because there's nowhere to gobble up. This causes conflict between imperialist powers, like the schism rising between the US as the world's imperial hegemon and core imperialist countries like the UK, France, and Germany. The important bit is that Russia is playing a progressive role against imperialism.
The definition of imperialism is not arbitrary, it describes a system that results in immense plunder and underdevelopment of the global south. The west has its riches off the backs of the global south, to this day. Russia does not. If Russia was to join NATO, join the EU, transition to a more imperialist economy, etc then it would go from playing a progressive role against imperialism to playing an actively imperialist role.
Imperialism is not arbitrary. It's the largest global obstacle to human progress, and the advance of socialism.
Hmm OK. I don't think you really addressed my question but it's fine. Everyone's imperialist. Except Russia of course, famously progressive Russia.
Anyway, thanks for explaining what you meant
I think I answered pretty well, the US and EU are the core imperialist countries, the global south is largely imperialized. Most countries aren't imperialist.
Would Russia be imperialist if everything was the same except they had more finance capital and less commodities trade?
That's certainly a big if, but one of the important bits is that they are largely kept out of the ability to imperialize the world as it's already divided amongst the western powers. As Russia develops, it will likely see that same saturation and development of finance capital domestically, but unlike the west, it won't have the ability to expand, and will more likely lead to crisis. If the west severely weakens before then, there's a good chance it would indeed become imperialist, as imperialism isn't a policy choice but the natural evolution of capitalist development. However, this is on a world scale, not merely at the level of an individual country.
Ok thanks.
Your definition seems a little cherry picky. Ignoring the obvious role of hard power and over-focusing on capital seems like a mistake. But I don't know enough anyway. Wiki's definition makes more sense to me
Hard power is used to maintain imperialism. The reason the export of capital is important is that this is what allows imperialist countries to siphon all of the wealth from the global south, vs. just selling them things. Wiki's definition is vague enough to apply to Burkina Faso kicking France out, ie it turns anti-imperialism into imperialism.
Kicking someone out is not "extending power over foreign nations." That is "resisting foreign nations trying to extend power over you."
You're being ridiculous and clearly not taking the definition as intended. Your definition is the problem here
It's absolutely extending your power over a foreign nation. Resistance to domination is the enforcement of your own will over that of others. Wiki's definition is intentionally vague to the point of being worthless, while the historical analysis of imperialism as originated with theorists like Hobson and extended by Lenin, Nkrumah, and Cheng Enfu describes an actual system, its material causes and mechanisms, and describes why it exists and how to end it. The wiki definition is like defining capitalism as "trade" and saying Marx was being ridiculous by analyzing it further.
Here's a good summary of imperialism. Treating imperialism like a vibe, and not like a material process, means we are incapable of learning how to stop it.
"Extending" is the key word here. You aren't extending any power if it's your own nation, it would be the other party who did that.
Anyway, thanks for the link, I'll check it out!
Extension is a relative term. Burkina Faso is extending its own influence to that of France by kicking them out. Every action has a reaction, in regaining their sovereignty they have reduced France's. This is a good thing, but if we are being technical, it counts as imperialism according to Wikipedia. This is obviously an absurd statement, but that's the point, Wikipedia's definition isn't actually a technical one, and instead is trying to describe a gut feeling more than a material process with concrete characteristics and motions.
And no problem!
I feel like you should have just said ‘screw it’ and vulgarly defined imperialism as a parasitic relationship.
To keep it as mindnumbingly simple as possible, imperialism looks (more or less) like this:
Not this:
I tend to think being consistent helps a lot.
So...what do you call BRICS, then? Just because the Imperialism is currently less influential than its competition, doesn't stop it from being Imperialism.
Trade is not imperialism. BRICS is not imperialist.
Simply stating something as if it were a fact, doesn't make it true. BRICS perfectly fits the description you gave. It's literally an alternative market, centered around the countries typically excluded by the "Western market". By its own definition, it was formed to compete with Western markets for global economic influence, and to expand the market capabilities of its member states.
That fits every criteria of your limited definition of imperialism.
Russia also fits the standard definition of an imperialist state due to their hostile military occupations of neighboring countries, as well as their aggressive influence campaigns targeting foreign governments around the world. They literally check every single box.
BRICS is an international trade organization, not a means by which a tiny cluster of countries that are dominated by finance capital gain money by exporting capital and expropriate wealth from the global south. This is why BRICS is made up of largely developing economies. It absolutely does not fit my definition in the slightest.
Secondly, war is not imperialism. War can be done to cement it or aid it, but it is not itself imperialism. Otherwise Burkina Faso kicking France out would be "imperialism" against France.
Lol! "It does not fit your definition in the slightest" because you are ignoring all the things that define it as an economic system. You said it yourself...it is an "international trade organization". What exactly do you think the purpose of that, is? Why does it exist?
C'mon, man. I know you aren't that dim.
And war is absolutely imperialism, when the objectives are to expand wealth through land and resource acquisition. Especially when force is used to acquire those lands and resources. Russia tried to get it through regime change first, and when the people of Ukraine rejected those efforts...they invaded.
That is literally the defining characteristic of classic imperialism. Expansion through dominance.
Trade is not imperialism, I quite literally explained how the export of capital as opposed to commodities as a means to enrich the imperialist countries at the expense of others is imperialism. BRICS is about cooperative trade agreements.
As for expansion, no, it isn't inherently imperialism, nor is war. The Statesian North absorbing the confederacy would be imperialism by your vague definition.