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Image description:
Text: Amazon's electric cargo bikes have arrived in DC.
Image: A four-wheeled vehicle that appears to be a cross between a bicycle, a go-cart, and a mini-truck
Response text from high t alpha shemale @gluetaster: that's not a cargo bike man that's a loopholemobile
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. These have to be far quieter and don't pollute like cars. That's progress!
By all means, do criticise Amazon's treatment of workers and horrible policies in general. And yeah batteries are better than fossil fuels but still aren't the greenest. But IMO anything that brings the US closer to bicycle culture can't be all bad. Let's accept a win when we see it and keep pushing, yeah?
The posts about Berlin and Finland are inspiring, let's get others there too.
Okay, but what is pictured is a car sized vehicle that is going to be moving in traffic in the same place as cars, while simultaniously having fuckall safety features and no climate control. This is a fucking deathtrap, and just a new way to cut costs at the expense of working class lives. This is not progress, the is sacrificing people for the great capitalist overlords.
Ok but you have to somehow transport a lot of parcels, right? You need a certain size for that. There is barely any additional volume other than storage space and driver space, so this is about as small as it gets?
Sure, it's about as small as it gets, at the cost of worker lives. Would it have become that much more bulky to give it at least minimal safety featues, like crumble zones, or doors that can be locked? No. It would however be more expensive for Bezos. He'd rather these workers die, than spend an additional bit of money to ensure their safety.
It is possible to have good electrified last mile delivery, while not putting poor people in literal death boxes, it's just going to hurt the billionaire's profits.
Ok I just compared it to the cargo bikes that delivery services use here in Germany, from the first look I thought they were about the same size - and they use bike lanes and are allowed to drive in pedestrian zones, etc. However, comparing them side by side I think the amazon vehicle is in fact a lot larger and probably too big to use a bike lane. In that case, it doesn't make a lot of sense, yeah. Not sure though if it's really that unsafe if it can only go 25km/h.
Examples of the German delivery "bikes" here and here.
The USPS just got done ordering a custom-designed vehicle built from the ground up for efficient, safe, and comfortable package delivery. It doesn't look like this.
I don't know how fast it's meant to go, but it looks like it shouldn't be going faster than 30 kph (20 mph). That is the speed that most city traffic should have. If this helps to make that the standard, that's going to save far more lives than anything else.
Frankly, it is a loophole mobile unequivocally, but it's a loophole that I would prefer that the laws change to accommodate rather than the other way around. "Deathtrap" is complete bs inspired by the same propaganda car companies use to justify bigger and bigger dangerous gas-guzzlers.
If we want any validation for this we don't have to look any further than every other developed city in the world. This is just a more fuel efficient, quieter, more agile, and safer-for-pedestrians way to navigate a crowded city.
I get what you're saying, and I agree it's technically a good thing. But I have a problem with the fact that as noted, there's no climate control, and no safety features. This will be on the roads with normal vehicles, doesn't fit in a bike lane, and despite essentially being an efficient car, there's no seatbelt. If somebody gets t-boned in one of these, or in any kind of wreck in general with a standard car or truck, they will likely die horribly.
I've no qualms with improving efficiency, but it shouldn't come at the expense of safety for the vehicle operator who is being required to use this for work for likely many hours per day.
I would be fine if we all drove these (and of course the infrastructure was updated to accommodate)
That is exactly the propaganda.
There's the classic example that the car safety score is determined by whether the people inside the vehicle survive a crash. That leads to a perverse incentive in which car companies build a larger and more robust car to ensure their passengers survive crashes with no regard for the people they crash into. Since every car company is doing this they have to get bigger and bigger until we get the cars we have today that have to be registered as trucks.
These vehicles might be less safe for the drivers in our world of super-trucks, but they are magnitudes safer for pedestrians. I would prefer every effort to normalize smaller vehicles and I think every vehicle like this that's on the road means one less pedestrian-killer and an overall safer experience.
From what I read, the reason (at least in US) why we got those big cars was the fuel economy requirements were more relaxed which made automakers who couldn't improve it enough use it as a loophole.
It's both.
These things are at most half as wide as most modern cars so no its not car sized. Its not really bike sized either sure but its not just a car. Actual bikes both motor and pedal variety alreay cope fine in city traffic these are fine as well in terms of safety, maybe not in the dessert but otherwise its alright.
Of course its cost cutting at the expense of some comfort, but I'd much rather have this or any similar aliby cargo bike delivering in my neighboorhood than vans, even electric ones. These things are speed limited and the acceleration is fairly tame as well, the driver generally has a much better view than a van, and requiring the pedal input for forward movement makes the driving a bit more conservative/safe.
These should not be on standard bike paths they are just too big for that, but on pedestrianized/ bike streets these are infinetly better than cars for anyone except for maybe the driver, and on low ish speed limit inner city streets they are also just better than cars.
It is actually progress but its also just companies being cheap of course. I do see them as a genuine city quality indicators here in the EU, if they don't exist it's a sign the urban area is either pretty small or just super car centric.
It's still car sized everywhere else. Cars in America are just needlessly oversized.
People need to remember that just because something is cost cutting, does not necessarily mean it's worse. A great example is the move away from boxing things that are already boxed. So many people pissed off at it, but it's just an easy way to be slightly better for the environment
A plus for the climate, a loss for workers.
Yep I would say you're nailing the "criticize Amazon's treatment of workers" part. That obviously is in severe need of fixing too.
Would you prefer if that got addressed but they stayed purely on combustion engine vehicles? I appreciate the idealism and in a perfect world we'd have both, but actually expecting both outcomes at once is sadly a tall order...
This isn't a delivery bike. It's for transferring cargo. That could have gone in a train or tram and been 100% electric while also not putting lives at risk.
You think the US has trains and trams that reach most neighborhoods? Not by a long shot.
No this is definitely looks like a last mile delivery vehicle to me.
You mean in the bike lanes.
Doubt. Bikers already have to contend with electric bikes, electric mopeds, and electric motos in the bike lanes so you can guarantee these assholes will be there too, especially if the automobile roads are jammed.
Do you know vehicles exist that aren't mini coopers?
Are these things going to be clogging up bike lanes and making biking more dangerous for people that aren't working for Amazon? Are they going to have their "drivers" risking their lives on the roads with real cars? Are they going to be out there peddling hundreds of pounds of packages for 8 hour shifts in 90 degree weather? Oh but it's quieter and less polluting... cool cool cool. The human endangerment is worth it then.
People seem more than willing to throw workers under the bus, as long as they know those delivery drivers are using an electric vehicle that doesn't take up space or make any noise. Never mind that it's summer and high-temp records being broken daily, get these guys out in that 98 degree heat so I can get my package delivered right to my front doorstep.
You must not be from the US. Bike lanes here are empty, mostly treated as extra shoulder for cars. I'm not concerned about this one bit.
No, I feel confident that fewer motorized vehicles does not mean more danger for cyclists.
Except for the peddaling that sounds suspiciously similar to current conditions. That needs to be addressed too, but I don't think vehicle type alone is sufficient.
DC actually has a fair number of bikers around. It's not as many as it should, but I've biked into and around DC, and it's not bad. This will easily block an entire bike lane/trail/whatever though. This makes biking more difficult for everyone else, not less.