this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2026
164 points (77.5% liked)
Memes
56276 readers
1620 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 7 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Communists aren't a hive mind, expats from socialist countries, even if they believe themselves to be communists, may have faulty lines or flawed understanding. You don't have to speak if you don't want to, but surely you can understand how an expat teaching in a western country has certain understandings that likely go against proletarian Marxism-Leninism.
Again, you don't have to speak if you don't want to, but I would argue that you're inviting more dogpiling by not expounding on what you mean. Conversation can only really happen when both parties participate, when someone lays out an assertion without backing it, it can only be attacked directly, not as a point but as the assertion it is, which lends itself more to dogpiling.
Marxism is broad. There are correct lines, incorrect lines, and hotly contested lines. An expat from a socialist country that serves as an academic for a liberal university is going to have certain class interests and outlooks that set them apart from a communist building socialism in a socialist country. With only that information, there isn't really anything else to help build a case for or against how Marxism was taught to you, through what frames, and in what manner and depth.
As for you making an assertion, you did:
You don't have to defend this assertion if you don't want to, but this is what people who understandably want to defend Marxism are going to latch onto and try to address. This is what manifests in "dogpiling," when you have a clear statement like this one, but with little backing it beyond your experience with Marxism in western academia, this understandably causes people to raise issue with your claims. Block if you want to, but this seems like you want to have your cake and eat it too, raise your opinion on a subject and shield yourself from talking about it on a social media platform focusing on discussion.
Again, do what you want. Nobody should be forced to debate.
I'm not talking to Meow, and this is not a formal debate setting. I agree with Meow, and am fine to back up Meow's points if you wish, after all, I put together the reading guides Meow mentioned. That's my personal investment in this discussion, defending the utility of guides I put together (even if the advanced list isn't really a list at this point but a remnant of the prototype basic list).
I feel that if you want to avoid discussing Marxism-Leninism, it's better to not make a counter-assertion at all, and instead just indicate from the get go that you don't want to discuss it. I agree with Meow that it's critically relevant to the discussion at hand, though, which is why it was brought in.
Surely you can also see that, by positioning yourself as old and experienced, ie wiser, you are speaking condescendingly towards those you disagree with? I'm fine to take this to DMs, if you wish, but my preference is open discussion as the main purpose of discussing Marxism, and the merits of it, is to create more comrades.
You've already shown yourself to be fairly obstinate, and likely aren't going to be swayed, but that doesn't mean that there aren't onlookers. There's no karma on Lemmy, upvotes do practically nothing (by design), but people are swayed and convinced when they see effective and sensible points being made.
In other words, I focus on swaying onlookers, rather than the person I am directly talking to. Far more effective use of time, unless the person I am talking to is willing to have an actual discussion (which is rare).
I also disagree that the guide was being used as a "cudgel," the point being made was that Marxist theory is useful. The guide was given as an avenue to explore theory, not as a way to "debunk" you. The point stands without the guide, that Marxist theory is useful, and your counterpoint dismissed it by saying you studied Marxism in a liberal, western academic setting, a setting well-known for distorting Marxism, blunting and defanging it.
I never once suggested that people need to read a list compiled by me to have a discussion with me, so I'm not sure where that came from. The list isn't a prerequisite for discussion, neither Meow nor I implied that. I also said you're completely okay to not discuss with me, I also despise debate culture, getting cheap "wins," etc. I just pointed out why people may be "dogpiling" you, as you said. I'm fully comfortable with not having a discussion with you, I've said so multiple times, so I'm also not sure why you describe me of not understanding why you don't want to. I do understand.
I don't know what your intentions are, and I didn't suggest that I did. I understand why you don't discuss Marxism, you told me already. I'm not sure why you think I'm forcing you to "debate me," I already explained that it's fine not to. Really not sure what you're trying to do here.