this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2023
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Unity: We have to charge for every install because we only see totals. Also Unity: We can tell which install is which, so you won't be overcharged.

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[–] Mereo@lemmy.ca 125 points 2 years ago (6 children)

The whole thing seems rushed because the CEO of Unity, John Riccitiello, was the leading advocate of microtransactions when he was at EA, and now he is instilling the same culture at Unity.

How will they differentiate between pirated copies and legitimate copies? How will they distinguish first-time installs from repeat installs? Can we trust their algorithm? It just doesn't seem possible.

[–] nothingcorporate@lemmy.today 86 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Unity: Everyone really seems to hate EA

Also Unity: Let's hire the CEO of EA

🤦

[–] ech@lemm.ee 37 points 2 years ago

Unity: ~~Everyone really seems to hate EA~~EA sure is making a lot of money

Also Unity: Let's hire the CEO of EA

🤦

Ftfy

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[–] peter@feddit.uk 51 points 2 years ago

If there was a foolproof way of checking for a pirated copy they wouldn't be making a game engine they'd be making DRM

[–] otter@lemmy.ca 22 points 2 years ago

Key bit feels like "can we trust their algorithm"

It's hard to enforce a "just trust me, this is what you owe"

[–] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 21 points 2 years ago (1 children)
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[–] echodot@feddit.uk 21 points 2 years ago

I'm not sure why they hired him.

"Hey we're looking for a new captain, why don't we go for the guy who repeatedly sails into rocks? He'll be good."

[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 18 points 2 years ago (5 children)

You can usually tell a unique machine apart from another via MAC address, but even that has issues, and that's giving Unity the benefit of the doubt when they haven't earned it.

[–] Silvus@kbin.social 32 points 2 years ago

If I buy a new computer, they shouldn't be charged again because I installed on the new machine.

his is ignoring the "we don't collect personal data" but "we will definitely know if you install it once or multiple times "we have ways""

[–] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 26 points 2 years ago (2 children)

MAC addresses are per network Interface, my computer has three technically and uses two of them on a regular basis.

A terrible tracking method.

[–] Dyf_Tfh@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 2 years ago

And nowadays you have randomized MAC addresses on IPV6.

[–] lukas@lemmy.haigner.me 6 points 2 years ago

Vendors also re-use MAC addresses to cheap out on costs.

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 24 points 2 years ago (1 children)

MAC addresses are absolutely trivial to spoof, to the point that it's just a drop-down option on linux lmao, so yeah good luck with that one

[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 4 points 2 years ago

Are MAC address even shared ocer IP? as I understand MAC is for routers and other equipment to connect themselves, what MAC address are they going to receive? The one of the PC or the one of my router?

[–] wim@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Except iOS will randomize its mac adress at each boot / after a while to prevent users being tracked by rogue WiFi networks, which is actually a thing being used to track consumers in commercial spaces etc. So that wouldn't work.

[–] maynarkh@feddit.nl 4 points 2 years ago

So did Windows at one point at least.

[–] Lojcs@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago

I don't think it randomizes its actual mac address, it just gives a different one to different wifis

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

There is still a lot of questions. How many components can I change and it still be the same computer and not a new computer? If I replace one component every two months after about a year I'll have a new computer I've kind of ship of Theseused may way to a new rig. At what point would I have to buy a new licence?

If I don't ever have to buy a new licence in that scenario why do I have to buy a new licence if I buy a new computer outright, it's functionally the same difference.

[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago

You're asking all the same questions we asked 15 years ago, when DRM started limiting installs on games like BioShock.

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

The MAC address is the address of the network card, which can be either built into the motherboard, or on a replaceable card... so if that was the only thing they tracked, you could replace everything except that... unless you have a network card with an editable MAC (they don't need to be unique worldwide, only on the network they directly connect to).

Microsoft seems to use a slightly different system, where they'd generate a sort of hash for all the components, then allow a limited number of changes per year, so you can change the while computer a limited number of times a year.... but they call home all the time.

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[–] Platform27@lemmy.ml 42 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Lying about collecting that data, because they do (and I block it). Not lying, but backtracking on everything else.

[–] nothingcorporate@lemmy.today 28 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You're right, they're absolutely collecting data, but saying they can't differentiate between activations and then saying "oh yeah, actually, we can when it comes to (piracy/bundles/charity/etc.)" less than 24 hours later tells me that not only do they not care about game devs, but they think we're stupid too.

[–] dfyx@lemmy.helios42.de 8 points 2 years ago

It also tells me that this is the first time their internal devs have heard about these plans. This is the C-level‘s wet dream, not something they have actually implemented yet.

But hey, it can’t be that hard, can it? The code monkeys should be able to get it to work in three months, right?

[–] Tick_Dracy@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Can you share, how are you blocking it? On the firewall?

[–] Platform27@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

There’s a couple of ways to block it.

  1. Via an application Firewall, which will run on your PC. Safing’s Portmaster works on both Linux and Windows. Objective-See’s LuLu is a good Mac option. Both of these tools are free and open source.

  2. If you know Unity’s IPs, you could block it in your firewall. I’m guessing you do not. Though, with a little work, it can be done.

  3. If you can’t do either, you could at the very least block it at the DNS level. This will stop the software getting those IPs. It doesn’t really work if the IPs are already baked into the software, but that is incredibly unlikely in games. A great configurable DNS provider is NextDNS. If you have the know how to self-host a Pi-Hole or Adguard Home are great options.

There’s also ways to analyse that traffic, which I won’t go into here.

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[–] dom@lemmy.ca 37 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Ok so if they are now only charging for the first install, why aren't they just charging an extra fee per sale? Wouldn't that accomplish effectively the same thing? (And actually work out in unity favour since not everyone who buys a game downloads it)

[–] Veraxus@kbin.social 23 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Because they realize that a huge number of their customers are small indies, and they want to be able to squeeze them - the majority of their customer base - not just the minority of big companies (who are also the most likely to fight back legally).

Just look at how their scheme squeezes smaller, poorer developers way more than big ones. If Unity went by points like, say Epic does with Unreal, they could shake down the big developers… but wouldn’t get much out of the indies.

[–] Damage@feddit.it 11 points 2 years ago

Which is the opposite of what smart companies like Adobe do. You facilitate the small players in hope that they grow big and keep using your products at a larger scale.

[–] skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 20 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

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[–] amju_wolf@pawb.social 13 points 2 years ago (3 children)

That's probably pretty negligible numbers. In fact I'd suspect that the number of people who buy a single copy that they then install on multiple devices is lower than the number of people who buy a game and never play it.

It's also much simpler to implement and the numbers are verifiable. Unless... that's exactly what Unity wants; just "trust me bro this is the correct number" kind of deal.

[–] narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

People eventually upgrade their computers. Swapping out mainboards and/or reinstalling Windows probably counts as a new device.

[–] rikudou@lemmings.world 10 points 2 years ago

Also Steam Deck - every install and uninstall is considered a new computer. That's true for Linux gaming using Proton in general, but the rest of Linux gaming is not as relevant.

[–] lukas@lemmy.haigner.me 3 points 2 years ago

Trust me bro won't work when devs phone home custom install analytics tho.

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[–] dudewitbow@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

It work for paid games, youd have to apply it to microtransaction level if by f2p game, which is the real target for the change.

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[–] recycledbits@discuss.tchncs.de 24 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Was Unity lying yesterday or are they lying today?

Yes and yes. It's not an either-or situation.

[–] nothingcorporate@lemmy.today 7 points 2 years ago

Good point, they can't both be true...but they CAN both be false. I'm hiring you as my lawyer.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Well it kind of is. Either they can differentiate between a new install and a repeat install, or they can't.

[–] recycledbits@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

It's also possible that they can't track new installs either.

FAQ:

How is Unity collecting the number of installs?

We leverage our own proprietary data model and will provide estimates of the number of times the runtime is distributed for a given project – this estimate will cover an invoice for all platforms.

Which is some kind of weird nebulous BS.

They're not saying their engine phones home and/or collects data from end-user devices. With the associated data protection nightmares.

[–] luciole@beehaw.org 12 points 2 years ago

Oof. This is corporate lingo for "we'll pull a number out of our ass and charge the dev accordingly". "Proprietary data model" makes it clear they intend to remain conveniently (for them) opaque about it.

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[–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 19 points 2 years ago (1 children)

So does this mean every single unity game will have unity online drm now? Or how else will they be able to tell? Seem so much more convenient to take a cut from sales instead

[–] GammaGames@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago

Considering it applies to games released before 2024… they would have to already have their own tracking built in

[–] Wirrvogel@feddit.de 15 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Sounds trustworthy to me! ~/s~

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[–] Ecksell@lemmy.one 12 points 2 years ago

Relevant username is relevant

[–] decivex@pawb.social 9 points 2 years ago

What does 'install' mean here anyway? Most unity games I play are either distributed as archives or installed through third party launchers.

[–] lloram239@feddit.de 9 points 2 years ago

Has anybody send Unity a GDPR request? I'd be curious what data they collect to make install tracking possible.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org 9 points 2 years ago

Well, shiver me timbers!

[–] SnowBunting@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

So what is a better game engine to use now?

[–] VinesNFluff@pawb.social 22 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Unreal for "commercial, highly documented, also an industry standard"

Godot for "this is actually libre software and you can trust it to not enshittify itself in a couple years"

[–] nothingcorporate@lemmy.today 3 points 2 years ago

This is the perfect answer.

[–] Nioxic@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 2 years ago

Godot is FOSS.

Unreal is decent too i guess but.. not free. (Though iirc its free if you publish your game on epic)

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