this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2024
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9
Nvidia CEO: "We can't do computer graphics anymore without artificial intelligence" (www.techspot.com)
submitted 2 months ago by nanoUFO@sh.itjust.works to c/games@sh.itjust.works
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[–] Sludgehammer@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

Gee, we've had over a half century of computer graphics at this point. However, suddenly when a technology arises that requires obscene amount of GPU's to generate a results a GPU manufacturer is here to tell us that all computer graphics without that new technology is dead for... reasons. I cannot see any see any connections between these points.

[–] abruptly8951@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Devils advocate: Splatting, dlss, neural codecs to name a few things that will change the way we make games

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com -1 points 2 months ago

I think what he means is that AI is needed to keep making substantial improvements in graphic quality, and he phrased it badly. Your interpretation kind of presumes he's not only lying, but that he thinks we're all idiots. Given that he's not running for office as a Republican, I think that's a very flawed assumption.

[–] MudMan@fedia.io -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What do you mean "suddenly"? I was running path tracers back in 1994. It's just that they took minutes to hours to generate a 480p image.

The argument is that we've gotten to the point where new rendering features rely on a lot more path tracing and light simulation that used to not be feasible in real time. Pair that with the fact that displays have gone from 1080p60 vsync to 4K at arbitrarily high framerates and... yeah, I don't think you realize how much additional processing power we're requesting.

But the good news is if you were happy with 1080p60 you can absolutely render modern games like that in a modern GPU without needing any upscaling.

[–] Kushan@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

I think you just need to look at the PS5 Pro as proof that more GPU power doesn't translate linearly to better picture quality.

The PS5 Pro has a 67% beefier GPU than the standard PS5 - with a price to match - yet can anyone say the end result is 67% better? Is it even 10% better?

We've been hitting diminishing returns on raw rasterising for years now, a different approach is definitely needed.

[–] vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 1 month ago

computer graphics has existed for quite long. It seemed possible to do just last year.

[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

Yes you can. Easily. You're sitting on the infrastructure to do it.

Pre-built.

[–] regrub@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

Sounds like a bad thing tbh.

[–] leaky_shower_thought@feddit.nl 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

the premise seems flawed, i think.

i feel what he's saying is: we suck optimizing gfx performance now because gamers deem ai upscale quality as passable

this feels opposite to what the ps poll says that gamers enable performance mode more because the priority is more stable frames than shiny anti aliasing/post processing.

[–] MudMan@fedia.io 2 points 2 months ago

I don't see how that's the case. Most people prefer more fps over image quality, so minor artifacting from DLSS is preferable to the game running much slower with cleaner image quality. That is consistent with the PS data (which wasn't a poll, to my understanding).

I also dispute the other assumption, that "we suck at optimizing performance". The difference between now and the days of the 1080Ti when you could just max out games and call it a day, is that we're targeting 4K at 120fps and up, as opposed to every game maxing out at 1080p60. There is no target for performance on PC anymore, every game can be cranked higher. We are still using CounterStrike for performance benchmarks, running at 400-1000fps. There will never be a set performance target again.

If anything, optimization now is sublime. It's insane that you can run most AAA games on both a Steam Deck and a 4090 out of the same set of drivers and executables. That is unheard of. Back in the day the types of games you could run on both a laptop and a gaming PC looked like WoW instead of Crysis. We've gotten so much better at scalability.

[–] rustyfish@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The brute forcing of AI into anything goes into the next stage.

Good thing I don’t care that much about graphics since I’ve been a teenager.

[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago

We can't do the profitable thing without the more expensive and even more lucrative thing, please, think of our monopoly.

[–] massive_bereavement@fedia.io 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

What's up with the biker jacket?

[–] Snowpix@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 months ago

It's a stupid gimmick like Steve Jobs' turtleneck.

[–] aaaaace@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 months ago

His version of a weighted blankie.

[–] Zahille7@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Techbros

[–] recklessengagement@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This feels like its establishing a precedent for widespread adoption/implementation of AI into consumer devices. Manufactured consent.

"We compute one pixel... we hallucinate, if you will, the other 32."

Between this and things like Sora, we are doomed to drown in illusions of our own creation.

[–] MudMan@fedia.io -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If the visuals are performant and consistent, why do we care? I have always been baffled by the obsession with "real pixels" in some benchmarks and user commentary.

[–] ProgrammingSocks@pawb.social 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

AI upscales are so immediately obvious and look like shit. Frame "generation" too. Not sour grapes, my card supports FSR and fluid motion frames, I just hate them and they are turned off.

[–] ProgrammingSocks@pawb.social 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Lol, I'm so happy I went with AMD.

[–] Amir@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Great, so now all games require AI-upscaling you're left out of any ability to play them

[–] ProgrammingSocks@pawb.social 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You mean AAA titles. AAA titles are mostly not worth playing. All "graphical fidelity" no substance.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

RIP the future of high end computer graphics. 1972 to 2024. You had a good run.

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I been playing old games on private servers. Its been nice.

[–] RustyShackleford@literature.cafe 5 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Star Wars Galaxies or PSO?

[–] RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Star Wars Galaxies private servers are not a good experience. They don't allow two players from the same IP, so if you live with someone you want to play with you have to tell them, then send them pictures of BOTH copies of the discs and you and the other person's hands. They hide behind "preventing gold farmers" but like, who is actually going to be a gold farmer in a private server, and who actually cares if they did? The other 25 players in the server?

Nah, I'm good.

City of Heroes has been golden by comparison.

[–] RustyShackleford@literature.cafe 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Oh wow, I haven’t played that in forever… If the community up and running? What’s the update at, are we talking early days, Fire/Fire Defender or different builds altogether? Not even sure where my discs are in the garage. 🤔

[–] RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This is the webpage for the project. It will have everything you want to know, and if you can't find it there or the forums, there is also a wiki.

[–] RustyShackleford@literature.cafe 4 points 1 month ago

Awesome, thanks. I never would’ve expected it was so simple. 😅

[–] Bo7a@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 months ago

City of Heroes has been golden by comparison.

-homecoming gang represent.

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Unfortunately PSU, as all my friends veto'd me for PSO first. But PSOBB is next, and hopefully by then Team Clementine will have released their PSO2 Original.

[–] RustyShackleford@literature.cafe 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You’re lucky to have friends into the same stuff, I couldn’t pay my friends to play an MMO. I got one girlfriend too, but she didn’t like how much I played. I never got to play BB, what’s it like? And PSO2 was my favorite, the memories… A chance to get back into that, dare I say, it almost felt perfect somehow.

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Keep an eye on Team Clementine, they'll launch it eventually. Blue Burst is just PSO with extra content at the end game. Pretty fun theres some private servers that show up first hit with a web search.

[–] RustyShackleford@literature.cafe 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Oh sweet, guess I’ll did around and look at the BB servers. Any recommendations?

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Unfortunately not, I have yet to truly delve into that myself and I plan on self hosting a BB server.

[–] Thassodar@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Tell me of these PSO private servers you speak of.

[–] RustyShackleford@literature.cafe 4 points 2 months ago

Can’t say there is one, at least not yet. The talks for PSO2.

[–] aaaaace@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 2 months ago

We're at that point in Brazil where everything behind the screens is devastated and wrecked for profit, and now if you want to see any sign of nature you need a graphics card.

But that's in California, where anything natural is on fire or is sliding across Malibu into the ocean.

So just a preview unless these people are stopped.