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I've never really understood distro-hopping. Unless you have a reason to switch, why to do it? Or, why to bother?
If you want to check it out, read/watch a review, or test it on a virtual machine. You don't really – IMO – have a reason to have it on bare metal.
.. and all of that was a really long way to say that I'm very satisfied with my distro.
Yes, if you've found your distro, I also don't see a point in switching, there's more important stuff than learning how to install and setup your distro everytime you hop. I only hopped, when I wanted to have a clean install because my previous was kinda broken (dirty state over time), and/or wanted to have more control, or try a different desktop-environment. I have now found a distro (NixOS) where I can have all of that at the same time (so no point in hopping anymore for me too).
I don't. I just use Debian, because it's the oldest, most popular, most (API) stable distro out there. I have zero needs to switch. I'm sick of OS' (i.e. Windows) that keep moving/switching/changing things around in massive ways, just for the sake of change. I know they do it to stay fresh in the market, but that's simply not it for me anymore.
it’s the oldest, most popular, most (API) stable distro out there I'd say that's Slackware.
Somewhere along the lines of 10-15 years?
Never... isn't that normal?
I run a variety of VMs, and the VMs can run any distro, I'm pretty agnostic about it.
As far as my user interface goes once I've got it tweaked and set up I don't want to ever change it. But I'm one of those crazy people who runs macOS as UI, and a fleet of VMs below it.
And at various companies I work for, I run Windows, with a fleet of VMs below that.
On my secure console I run Qubes with a fleet of VMs below that.
I did about once a year until 2018 when I settled on Arch.
But now I've got a server on NixOS and loving it, so I might be switching my laptop soon.
I use NixOs btw Its awesome. Having a stable system config with home-mangere for the user env is pretty nice to just play around with the security of always being able to switch back to a working generation (some exceptions may apply).
I was messing with the hardware config (which has a warning not to mess with it if you dont know what you are doing) and corrupted my drives.
I got my previous system back from a clean install in 30 minutes.
Yes, it certainly invites you to tinker and experiment with the system without having to fear a broken state. I got multiple forks for different applications (e.g. helix-editor with a few merged PRs), and configured the system in a detail not comparable to any previous distros I was on. Really like how I can e.g. carelessly switch between different desktop environments (without VM)...
Whenever my sound card randomly stops working and I can't fix it. I switch to a different distro in hope that someone has this mess figured out by now.
I don't, I've been on arch since 2012 when I left xubuntu. This install has been in many different machines and started life on a HDD and is now on an nvme.
I test distros at work that I wouldn't test at home 😅 And every time I have to reinstall it because of some error, most notabe one was some BTRFS error. Sooo, every 2-3 years or so?
You should have a look at Ventoy.
That is indeed what I used to install the distros :) Does it have any other function?
Not that I know any of. Just wanted recommend it to you, if you test different distros. It's so nice to have multiple of them ready on a single USB stick. Just recently used it the first time and it's amazing.
I'm a non hopper guy. In 2008 wiped out Windows XP to switch fulltime to Ubuntu. Never hopped to any other distro until 13 years later in 2021 to Manjaro (based on Arch, but with changes and updates come in waves). Used it 1.5 years and was not happy and switched to EndeavourOS (closely based on Arch) and still use it, even after a new installation on a new machine. I thought about switching the distro, but it works so good and well and has what I need. NixOS was on my radar, but ultimately it would be too much of an experiment, change and needed time to learn. The uncertainty what to expect made me stay with what I know, as there was no reason for a change in my case.
The reason why I don't change too often the system is probably because I inform myself and know what to expect. Therefore the thing I chose is probably exactly what I want.
I don't understand why people will bend over backwards to install anything but baseline arch.
What do you mean by "bend over backwards"?
It's a common English idiom, referring to something that is difficult or taxing to accomplish, often without payoff.
I see. To me using EndeavourOS is not bending over backwards, because it is not more difficult than using bare metal Archlinux. Just saying, because you say you don't understand people doing that. I don't do it. EndeavourOS makes it more easy and less headache to use Arch in my opinion. And from that perspective, it's a win situation.
Installing Arch is a PITA tho, tbf. Just give me Calamares ...
I installed Arch the Archway once on my old laptop, just to learn the standard procedure. At the moment, I don't see any reason for myself (other than learning) to use bare Arch over EndeavourOS, which is very close to it, but with some bells and whistles and some pre configurations. Which does not mean others have no reason, I just talk for myself.
Also Arch nowadays have an installer script on the terminal, which makes things easier, but I never used it. I see it as a stopover between Calamares and manual Archway installation.
13 years on Ubuntu deserves some kind of prize! It was my gateway into Linux back in 2006 but they started to lose their way with the Gorilla release. I like the look of EOS tho.
This is the first time in 25 years of using Linux that I've changed distributions.
Welcome to the club. Nixos is fabulous. There's a steep learning curve though, and I still don't really get flakes and home manager.
Oh, it's very simple. Home-manager is something not yet finalized, optional and unofficial. Flakes was added in Nix 2.4, but you don't have to use it all.
You don't want to add unnecessary complications. You can do without home-manager and flakes on a single-user machine. This is just one of the system configuration options. I have tried deploying the system with flakes/home-manager, done it with docker and even with nix-env. The performance gain is not noticeable.
HM seems worth the effort only if you do a lot of customizing and tweaks to your home setup. Would that be an accurate assessment?
Home manager and flakes is something optional in today's NixOS. I don't see any obvious use for a single-user home system. Of course, many people go the flakes-setup route. NixOS has many customization options, up to and including docker installation.
I think it's healthy to give every distro a try to see how it feels, because your favorite distro might be something you haven't used yet. Personally I've already used all the distros a decent amount and I don't switch without a good reason.
I'm pretty happy on Arch atm. The only things I'd need to change would be the window manager (Sway) or maybe the file manager. I switched from Nemo to Ranger and it's been so good.
My current plan is to integrate dust (the file size viewer thing) with ranger so I can see how much storage files are using in the directory I'm viewing. I need to find out where I can edit Ranger's functionality to accommodate this. I might have to resort to cloning the repo.
I enjoy Arch's DIY approach. I can tailor my system to how I want and if I'm not happy with a certain part I can change it.
Arch is great. I used it for a few years back in the day, but it kept breaking stuff. I hear it's more stable now but I don't have time to be fixing things all the time.
I started with Backtrack on a laptop, and I currently have Kali on a preserved USB; with endeavor as a daily driver.
That being said, my current "real" daily drivers in Win10, mostly for gaming - Not because proton doesn't do a hell of a job, it certainly does, but it makes modding single player games more complicated. I will say that is absolutely my fault, I haven't spent enough time to figure it out. But after work, and the wife, and the animals, and the alcoholic BIL who shares the house... I just want to use Vortex to add some simple QOL mods to single player games and play it.
I troubleshoot IT issues all day at work, at the end of the day, I just need it to work. I've hardened and removed as much telemetry type bullshit as I could, but I'm sure some slips out. For my threat model, on this machine, I'm fine with it.
On the aforementioned labtop I boot into Kali for... well, that has a different threat model.
Its all self hosted vulnerable VMs for the specific reason of education, but some activities may fall into a grey area, so better safe than sorry.
I started using Linux about 6 years ago. First 3 years were a hopping-hell. The other 3 have been with Arch, Manjaro then made the jump to endeavourOS almost 1.5 years ago and haven't gone anywhere else, and not planning on it at all. Just realized that hopping was just useless. Now I can finally set it up and enjoy my system.
That's basically been my path - I started with Ubuntu in 2007, then Mint, then Fedora, then BLAG, Crunchbang, god knows how many others, and then finally, Arch. After being on arch for a few years, I switched to Antergos, and endeavorOS when Antergos was retired (rip in peace, I loved it).
I've been steady with Arch/Antergos/EndeavourOS for the better part of a decade and I have no inclination to hop any more.
Yeah, Arch and what comes from it are great. I never have to worry about flatpaks or snaps or any of that. Just have my snapshots set up and I'm good to go
I switched from NixOS mainly cause there is no saint way to use my dotfiles except to adapt homemanager or the like.
For now I use my own OS based on Fedora Silverblue
Interesting.
I have settled with NixOS+home-manager. It got quite a bit better over the last 3 1/2 years.
After learning and understanding all the quirks of NixOS, I've got a super nicely configured system, that just gets better over time, not comparable to a(ny) different distro I know of (they kinda degrade after time IME). I really like the way I can compose all my configuration via functions in modules and reuse relevant stuff on different servers and desktops I use (via flakes), always with the same up-to-date configuration.
Don't get me wrong I really like Nix. But like you said the learning curve is steep. And just learning the basics including flakes for instant setup is not enough. Because all your config files gotta be rewritten which is a lot of work and nix specific knowlege to aqquire. If you went through it I can totally see the benefit.
However for me personally it makes more sense to use tools that have wide adaption, such as OCI images and CI/CD to buid the image. My thought: Using Docker/Containerfiles is way more adapted by the industry so people already know how to use that. Nix on the otherhand has to not only fight against the default way UNIX systems are configured, but also do that with brand new tools.
I agree all distros are at some point breaking it's just the nature of any OS. That's why the nix paradigm or immutable OS paradigm is far superior and the future.
OCI images and CI/CD to buid the image
Actually since I just had a similar issue at work. I fought a little bit with the traditional Docker pipeline, and then discovered this: https://mitchellh.com/writing/nix-with-dockerfiles, which not only solved my problem much faster, but is also more efficient, since only the actual dependencies of the package are in there (and it can be really reproducible). So you can actually combine the best pieces of each technologies (Docker - sandboxing/containerizing, Nix - packaging and configuration).
Btw. Nix is rapidly growing (since flakes mostly), so I think a slow shift towards Nix is happening already.
But I agree, migrating traditional dotfiles to Nix+home-manager takes time. I did it incrementally (I used activation scripts to link directly to the old config files, and slowly converted the old config to Nix.
I have hopped rather rarely. I think my journey started with Debian -> (all kinds of flavors of) Ubuntu -> Arch -> NixOS.
Maybe I missed a few (started with linux at probably ~2005). I've stayed on each of these for a few years, I think I switched between Ubuntu flavors a little bit more frequently. Stayed on Arch the longest for ~7 years. And I think I have basically settled now since 3 1/2 years on NixOS without plan to hop any further distros (unless there comes a distro comparable to NixOS that has less quirks and is generally nicer to use (e.g. tooling, strong, strict static typing etc.)).
NixOS is quite different than other distros (which IMO are all very similar) but does package-management+system-configuration basically how it should be done (in hindsight). It's a rather steep learning curve in the beginning, but it only gets better over time, since your system continuously improves, compared to different distros that accumulate dirty state over time and in one way or the other break after some time. This was often the reason why I hopped on a different distro, since I wanted a clean fresh install, which I get with something like Impermanence+tmpfs on root after each reboot.
I was going to try installing NixOs on a partition on a spare laptop, but it didn’t like the fact that the rest of the disk was btrfs. I didn’t have that much time to dedicate to figuring it out, but lack of btrfs support was disappointing.
lack of btrfs support was disappointing
NixOS supports Btrfs
AFAIK NixOS supports every filesystem, that other linux distros support, and often with easier/better configuration, e.g. I'm using ZFS, which seems to be easier to setup on NixOS than on most other distros.
But does it work with the installer? I couldn't get the installer to work, and saw there were other people who had problems. (thanks for the link btw. I will definitely try and give it another spin).
installer
You mean the "new" installer GUI? I never used it TBH, I always did partitioning (and everything else) via CLI, not sure about that. But NixOS (gnome version) has GParted and all other kinds of partitioning tools on board, so just partition it as you think it's best and then generate a config via nixos-generate-config as described in the manual. One tip, when going down that rabbit hole (when you're committing at least): Start with Nix flakes right away. Checkout all kinds of dotfiles in github of other users (and on github there are a lot of configurations that can be source of inspiration).
Started with Debian Woody and stuck with Sid up until systemd, them hopped to Gentoo and Slackware (and occasionally Devuan).
Only when there is a real need . Debian runs on everything and it is a no nonsense distro so I've been happy with that for years... Started on Debian 6 and continued until now on laptops servers and SBCs. Before that it was Ubuntu and crunchbang for a few years and before that was fedora core that came on like 6 cds with KDE3.
At this point the only interesting thing for me are security changes. Games are largely sorted due to wine , proton and vulkan and all of the great work going on there.
I keep and eye on quebesOS , NixOS, silverblue ,subgraphOS and openBSD and alpine.
The dream OS would be hardened by default. Hardened Kernel with ACLs for everything defined by default. Like each app should be required to list all of the files it accessed and the type of access in a manifest, list permissions it needs and of URLs it accesses. Obviously there is a need for some wildcard stuff but it could be limited in scope. More of the kernel in rust would be nice with legacy systems removed to reduce the technical debt.
I know we have apparmor and selinux and pax/grsec (if you pay) but I think they dont scale well and require a massive investment in time to understand and debug.
Hi, I don't because I use Windows