this post was submitted on 20 Jan 2025
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TL;DR: We tried to move the community because of moderatorial concerns, but fumbled how we went about doing so.

First and Foremost:

We'd like to formally apologize for springing this on you all out of nowhere, and for taking so long to respond to the backlash. With retrospect, we understand that we should have notified you all beforehand to create an opportunity to give us feedback. We understand that a lot of respect and trust was lost, and we expect it'll take a lot of work and a lot of time before we can earn it back, but we would be grateful if y’all gave us that chance.

What happened, and why?

The primary issue that incited this was because we don't fully agree with the admin's moderation policies. By and large they do a great job and align with us on mod actions, but there have been several cases where we strongly disagreed, and our choices were overruled.

For example, 2 months ago, Kolanaki reached out to us via email and said they were banned from 196 for “playing the victim” and asked us why we banned him, but we didn’t. Moss talked to them and realized that the ban was unjust after reviewing the comment he was banned for. If he had never contacted us, we wouldn't have known about the ban, and they would have still thought we banned them.

There were a few similar events in a short time frame, leading to a few posts/comments in the community about the heavier modding policies. It's possible some posts/comments were misunderstood by Ada, or she interpreted things differently than we would have, but it led to some bans that we felt were indeed heavy-handed, and would not violate our rules in even the most uncharitable of interpretations. We have found that this is an ongoing trend when it comes to moderation of our community from the Admins. We oppose this because it leads to many users who otherwise mean well ending up alienated and removed for reasons that are frankly completely unfair. This is, in our opinion, counter to what we set out to build in our community.

It was made clear to us that it was their instance, and that we didn’t have a say in who would be banned and what would be removed. This is, of course, perfectly valid. It’s their instance, therefore it's up to them to decide what goes, but we no longer wanted to be the ones seen as accountable for moderation actions we have no control over. For this reason, we wanted to transfer out of lemmy.blahaj.zone. As much as we wanted to stay in the LGBTQ instance, we couldn't come to an agreement with Ada, so we talked to her about transferring out and got her blessing.

How we messed up

The most major failing on our part is, of course, that we didn’t announce the migration beforehand. Besides that, we also didn’t explain why we made the choices we made and only gave very vague answers. We avoided sharing the justification for our actions because we didn’t want to cause drama and/or exacerbate the situation, but this lack of substantiating our actions only caused the situation to worsen.

Going forward (if we may), we won't make the same mistakes again. From now on, we will attempt to be as transparent as possible.

FAQ

Why we chose lemmy.world

Many people have been asking about why we moved to lemmy.world. It already hosts the majority of large communities and besides this uncomfortable level of centralization, it has also been somewhat controversial as of late. Despite that, we still chose lemmy.world due to the following reasons:

  1. Moss's communication with the admins, and their agreement to let us moderate the community as we see fit. Ruud, after looking over our rules, agreed to abstain from taking admin action to curate or otherwise moderate our community, unless absolutely necessary.
  2. The instance is large enough to support traffic without performance issues (other instances like lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, and lemmy.dbzer0.com would have been fine too), and the instance has a certain degree of guaranteed longevity.
  3. Moss was given a list that was kindly made by the lemmy.world people as a part of our transfer detailing those who are banned on Blahaj.zone, but not on Lemmy.world, making moderation discrepancies much easier to clean up post-transfer.
  4. Our agreement with Ruud predated the now-rescinded policy changes
  5. It was, to the best of our knowledge, the most federated-with instance. We have come to understand that this is not necessarily the case.

Why not have another team take over the original 196?

This is a similar situation with what happened over on Reddit. 196 mods didn't agree with admins and were eventually replaced (difference here is that we were not forced out, but chose to leave). As Lemmy was a large gathering spot for people fleeing Reddit, we felt it was better to try to keep the community together and move together. Having another team take over splits the community. The more fragmentation there is, the less longevity and volume of community each skew will have.

What about the possibility of more trolls, neoliberals, bad actors, sealions, and transphobes on Lemmy.world?

Another huge issue was that the mods and the community were not on the same page regarding lemmy.world, their admins, and their policies. We understand the concern about trolls/bad-actors/transphobes, but we feel well-equipped to handle these issues. In addition, we've been in contact with the lemmy.world admins for a while now, and they've assured us that they'd allow us to moderate our community however we saw fit. All this being said, we still failed to communicate that to the community before taking action, which has undermined any assurances that we have given after the fact. We cannot apologize enough for that.

What about the people who are using instances that are defederated from lemmy.world (e.g. Beehaw)

This is an unfortunate issue that we were not aware of at the time of transfer. We're not sure what the solution is, but want to make our community as accessible as possible. Community solutions are welcome.

Did you migrate because of X? (addressing speculation)

  • We didn’t migrate due to anything related to neopronouns
  • We didn’t migrate due to us supposedly not wanting to use blahaj.zone lemmy accounts
  • We didn’t migrate due to us having friends who were banned from lemmy.blahaj.zone
  • We didn’t migrate due to us wanting to make the space less queer/leftist/etc
  • We didn’t migrate due to us getting secretly ousted by the Blahaj admin team

What now?

Well, we're not sure. We could go back on our decision and stay on blahaj.zone, continue on lemmy.world, do both, or try something else. Truth be told, we don't know what to do. For now, we will leave the comments open to civil community discourse, and choose our course of action from there.

Sincerely, Qaz, Rmbp, Greembow, A_Very_big_Fan, Peachy, and Moss.

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[–] headerfile@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 week ago

YEAH I THINK MAKING A SEPERATE INSTANCE FOR YOU GUYS AND KEEPING 196 UNTOUCHED WOULD BE NICE CAN WE DO THAT PLEASE

[–] rtxn@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I still don't understand how you thought this unilateral decision, including squatting on the 196@LBZ name, would be received well in the community. I question the soundness of your judgment.

Hold a vote of no confidence. Let the community you tried to screw over decide if the moderators should stay or resign.

[–] Cassa@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Quite a big point missing here

Apparently none of the 196 moderators were actively checking the modlog?

Meaning instance moderator could just see a modlog appearing, and no-one dealing with it.

Moss, I know you can do better than painting the picture one-sided. It's probably pretty stressful now, and I very much understand it.

[–] bownage@beehaw.org 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This is also what in confused about. If the mods didn't know about admin mod actions, surely that meant they weren't reading the mod log? I don't know the first thing about being a mod but this seems like there's a pretty clear solution.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Reports don't federate, you need a local account to see them.

Seems like this mod never bothered setting one up.

[–] bownage@beehaw.org 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] Blaze@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] bownage@beehaw.org 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Sorry, I should have given more context. I meant that the mods' behaviour confuses me a lot.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 1 points 1 week ago

Oh, it is confusing indeed

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 week ago (21 children)

Reposting this since you said you were going to answer questions in the !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com post but this one is still unanswered:

If the move had nothing to do with pronouns and you’ll continue to enforce rules about neopronouns, how do you feel about one of the LW community team mods making statements like this about them? Do you feel confident that they will always let you enforce neopronoun rules if they decide that it’s hurting LW?

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[–] erotador@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

why not open the original blahaj zone 196, and let ada appoint new mods? if yall want to move and have your heart set on that, thats fine, but its clear that there are many people who would lose access to their favorite community if the original 196 remains locked. having multiple instances of the same community is by no means a bad thing, it simply gives more reach for our communities, and more options for every user.

the whole point of the fediverse is that us users can make experiences we like for eachother. its very clear that many people like the way things are, yall dont have to, but we do. its a community because of everybody who participates, lets try and build communities where our queer and trans friends can feel safe and at home. nothing is lost if we have two communities, only gained. let the nature of the fediverse and federation decide how things play out, not a small group of moderators making unilateral decisions for everybody.

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Re: let Ada appoint new mods

Because the problem was the admins, not the mods. Ada was banning users without telling the mods. Read the post linked that got a ban.

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Ada was banning users without telling the mods.

I was banning users from the whole instance, not specifically from 196. Instance bans doesn't get pre-approved by community mods. Which is how every admin on every lemmy instance works, including lemmy.world.

[–] FirstMajesticComet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Also just for the record. I think Kolanki deserved it for being an ass and playing the victim. You absolutely need to earn allyship, you can't just self-proclaim to be an Ally when you don't actually support queer people in any way.

@moss@lemmy.blahaj.zone @moss@lemmy.world Yes I would've banned him if I were in Ada's position too.

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[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Lemmy.world is a rancid instance, and I won't be joining you. I trust and respect Ada far more than the mod team here. Historically, you've allowed so many bad-faith actors here. I just returned, but I know in the past I saw at least one regular here whose alt was banned for queerphobia. He'd constantly stir the pot, and you did nothing. RIP 196, I guess. You'll learn why this was a bad decision, mark my words.

There are reasons beehaw defederates from lemmy.world

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Thank you very much! I feel joy!

[–] tryagain@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago

nice. I'm outta here

[–] FirstMajesticComet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah lemmy.world is a horrible instance, they protect and unban trolls, transphobes, and even in one case, a person advocating for CSAM legalization WTF? This is a horrible decision and I'll never stand by them or support them. This destroys any amount of good faith I once had in the team here. I say they should be replaced and we continue here like nothing happened. blahaj.zone is an amazing instance and I for one appreciate them being as harsh on bigots and their apologists as humanly possible.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I intend to migrate to !onehundredninetysix@lemmy.blahaj.zone

However, in my opinion it's a shame it had to come to this.

[–] FirstMajesticComet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 week ago (5 children)

No offense but that community has a horrible name, it is insanely ugly. Shame on Ada for letting this one rot because mods said so.

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[–] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

dbzer0 or shitjustworks would have been way better than world. There's just way too many assholes on world, and even if you ban everyone who is overtly malicious there's still going to be a ton of normal users who are bringing a completely different vibe/political direction than the blahaj users (I say, as a feddit.org user).

[–] Infernal_pizza@lemm.ee 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Surely it doesn’t make any difference unless you’re on an instance that’s defederated from .world? I’ve only just moved off .world but I could already post and comment here?

[–] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Only if you think that the instance's userbase doesn't matter for any given community.

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[–] arisunz@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

lmfao at the people going

the community doesn't belong to you!!

then step the fuck up and be a moderator or open your own /c/. stop whining to the people doing free labor for you. on a meme board. "lost the community's trust" lmaooo

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[–] phuntis@sopuli.xyz -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I only saw one other person mention the post that's supposedly a good example of your disagreements with adas moderation but that makes it even more clear you need to resign and leave ada was right for removing that comment it's the typical "oh woe is me I just asked innocent questions and the angry trans people try to paint me as the bad guy" trans people don't get annoyed if you ask them a genuinely innocent question about their experience but they will get annoyed if you ask them "just innocent questions" where it's very clear what your real views are and what you're really doing adas just reading between the lines and that's a good thing that's how you avoid the sealioning that .world would've brought along and you say oh they reversed that decision and you would be allowed to ban sealions and you can mod how you like and .world won't interfere but it makes it very clear you wouldn't ban them anyway you agree with the .world admins anyway just leave you clearly don't represent the community in the slightest and have completely different views of how this community should be run hand over the moderation to the onehundredninetysix mod team and go do whatever you want on .world

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