this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2023
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I heard something to do with Nitrogen and …cow farts(?) I am really unsure of this and would like to learn more.

Answer -

4 Parts

  • Ethical reason for consuming animals
  • Methane produced by cows are a harmful greenhouse gas which is contributing to our current climate crisis
  • Health Reasons - there is convincing evidence that processed meats cause cancer
  • it takes a lot more calories of plant food to produce the calories we would consume from the meat.

Details about the answers are in the comments

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[–] pfannkuchen_gesicht@lemmy.one 63 points 1 year ago (21 children)

Because you need considerably more resources to grow meat than you need to to grow a nutritionally equivalent amount of vegetables.

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[–] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 50 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

The basic problem is that to get 1000 calories of beef, you need to feed the cow something like 10,000 calories. So growing a cow is actually growing an entire field of wheat/corn/etc., then feeding it to the cow, then eating the cow.

Farming all of those crops for the animals takes up a lot of land, consumes fresh water, produces wastes, and uses oil/gas (for farm equipment directly, or to produce things like nitrogen fertilizers) which produces co2. Cows also produce methane (that's the fart thing) which is a bad greenhouse gas.

You could just eat the wheat/corn/etc. directly (most of the time) and skip the meat step therefore saving a massive amount of environmental impact.

Meat sure is tasty though.

[–] goforliftoff@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I remember driving through Iowa and seeing vast fields of corn and learning that the majority of that corn was not even destined for human consumption. That kinda blew my mind.

[–] rog@lemmy.one 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Luckily there is still enough left over to poison the population with high fructose corn syrup

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[–] beto@lemmy.studio 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
  • Ethical reasons: hundreds of billions of animals are killed every year (not counting fish), after living a miserable and short life.
  • Environmental: greenhouse emissions (CO2 and methane), deforestation for pastures, water pollution, are all caused by animal agriculture. If everyone went vegan we'd need only 25% of the land we currently use for agriculture.
  • Health: there is some evidence that meat causes cancer, and convincing evidence that processed meat causes cancer. Also, the use of antibiotics for animals can lead to the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

Cow farts are methane, which are a more aggressive form of greenhouse gas, though with shorter lifespan.

Here's more info about meat and the environment.

[–] Neato@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For the cancer risk, this is the pertinent info:

An analysis of data from 10 studies estimated that every 50 gram portion of processed meat eaten daily increases the risk of colorectal cancer by about 18%.

That's about half a hot dog. Seeing as the news isn't exploding, this means that this is relative risk. Meaning your current chances of getting colorectal cancer is X. Eating a hot dog every other day continuously multiples your chance by 1.18. American Cancer Society states that over their lifetime, 1 in 23 men (4.35%) of men will develop colorectal cancer. This means if you ate 1 hot dog every other day continuously, a man's odds of contracting colorectal cancer changes from 4.35% to 5.13% over their lifetime.

[–] beto@lemmy.studio 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's just for colorectal cancer. It also affects other types of cancer (like breast cancer) and increases the chance of dying from heart disease considerably.

[–] Neato@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

But there weren't any good numbers on those I saw in there. Which is why I ignored the entire "meat" claim as it didn't list useful metrics. "Might cause cancer" doesn't really help anyone. There only seemed to be useful data about processed meat and colorectal cancer.

[–] BrerChicken@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago

Your edit is actually missing the biggest reason--all the energy and water it takes to raise the meat. It's just not sustainable.

[–] Smoogs@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago (27 children)

A lot more water to make the food for cows than what humans consume.

A lot more food to feed a cow than what it would take to feed the human the same type of food.

And the growth of that food to keep feeding these animals in large batch is pretty much creating dead areas of land that gets ruined if it’s not carefully monitored. And the run off into the water supply is a problem. This is why industrial level of farming is really really bad for the environment.

You’re supposed to move cattle around in pastures for regrowth and not entirely decimate it. The capitalists do not care about that until a court summons tells them to care about that.

Currently there’s some better methods however the consumption stays high.

Health wise : all meat diets (meat at every meal) can produce issues in your body.

Cured meat or heavy salted meat can lead to heart issues and kidney stones.

You should mix in some fruit and vegetables and maybe even substitute some entire meals so that meat is consumed only a few times a week if only for your body’s sake. Your taste buds aren’t the same organ as your heart. They aren’t the organs that make your body stay alive.

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[–] BearJCC@lemmy.sdf.org 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Most tree and forest loss is from making land for grazing.

[–] Tywele@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 year ago (18 children)

Not for grazing but for crops that are fed to animals in animal agriculture.

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[–] erasebegin@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The core issue is soil quality. Without sufficient organic content in the soil, all our food, whether it be plant or meat, has drastically reduced nutritional content meaning we need to consume more for the same effect. We're heading for a global food shortage because of the one key issue. Healthy soil also sequesters an enormous amount of carbon from the atmosphere. So instead of fighting the beef vs tofu wars, we should be focusing on encouraging agricultural practices that enrich soil rather than destroy it. We have about 50 years of crop cycles left before the majority of arable earth turns to sand.

Shifting your diet to be more plant-based is a good idea, but it's not the crux of the issue.

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[–] bunkyprewster@startrek.website 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ask the cow what she thinks?

[–] smigao@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] tofu@geddit.social 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

To learn more about the environmental impact of meat consumption, I recommend this Our World in Data article: https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food

I would highlight this chart: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ghg-per-protein-poore?country=Pig+Meat~Beef+%28beef+herd%29~Eggs~Lamb+%26+Mutton~Grains~Milk~Other+Pulses~Poultry+Meat~Tofu+%28soybeans%29~Peas~Nuts~Groundnuts~Fish+%28farmed%29~Cheese~Beef+%28dairy+herd%29~Prawns+%28farmed%29~Tofu

For example, getting 100 g of protein from beef emits ~ 50 kg of CO2. Getting 100 g of protein from tofu only emits ~ 2 kg of CO2.

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[–] sndrtj@feddit.nl 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You're not getting many answers yet regarding nitrogen.

As a preface: When it comes to climate and environmental concerns with respect to agriculture, the word "nitrogen" does usually not refer to the completely harmless atmospheric nitrogen (N2). Instead, it refers to various compounds that contain nitrogen.

Nitrogenous pollution from cattle comes in two shapes:

The first is methane (NH3). A single cow burps and farts out about 100kg of methane each year. Methane is a greenhouse gas that's 28 times as potent as CO2. This means a single cow is responsible for as much as 2800kg equivalent in CO2 each year due to burps and farts alone. For reference, the CO2 per capita emissions globally are about 4 tons (4000kg) per year, for all sources combined. Cows, relatively speaking, therefore produce a huge amount of CO2 equivalent.

The second is all the nitrogenous compounds in their excrements. This acts as a fertilizer on soil and in the water. While that sounds good, it leads to various unwanted effects. One is that agricultural runoff causes algal blooms in water that then ends up killing a significant amount of marine life. Another is that nutrient-rich soils tend to seriously decrease plant species diversity. Many native and wild plants actually need nutrient-poor soils to thrive. Those plants will get outcompeted by a small group of fast-growing plants that do well in all the cow-poop-infested soil. These compounds also tend to travel far, via agricultural runoff or even via the air, so ecosystems far away from farms are also impacted.

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[–] NeuralNerd@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Because it's speciesism. If we started giving birth to humans to eat them, that would be absolutely outrageous, but to do that to animals seems perfectly fine to most people. Animals have the same desire as we do not to be killed or abused, and to live a happy life.

[–] ragusa@feddit.dk 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (21 children)

This argument also implies that "dominionism" is wrong, i.e. all life has a right to not be killed or abused. Yet human life is impossible without killing and consuming other living organisms, be it plants, animals og fungi. Thus it is unethical to continue living.

This argument is bad, because for human life to be possible, you must draw the line between life that you consider ethical to kill and life that you consider unethical to kill.

[–] NeuralNerd@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (33 children)

It's not about "all life" but about "all sentient life". Only beings that are able have pleasant and unpleasant experience should be considered. If something (living or not) cannot experience suffering then you can't harm it, by definition.

Sentience is studied scientifically. It cannot be stated with absolute certainty but scientists have good sets of criteria and experiences that helps identify it. With the current knowledge it's almost certain that all mammals are sentient, like us. Fishes and birds are also very likely to be sentient. Some species of insects are probably sentient while others may not be. And plants are likely not sentient.

But even if all living things are sentient, it doesn't change very much. Speciesism means treating beings differently only because they belong to some specific species. There are good reasons to treat different beings differently but they should be based on the beings' interests, not their species (and studying sentience helps identifying these interests). It's very likely that we do less harm by growing plants than by breeding animals. And even if it was the same amount of suffering we would still do less harm by avoiding eating animals because breeding them to eat them actually requires more plants than just eating plants. We should seek to minimise suffering and avoiding eating animal is a good way to do that.

[–] ragusa@feddit.dk 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I don't agree on your analysis of sentience. The term sentience has no concrete meaning, so how can you base your moral judgements on this? Plenty of plant life has senses and are able to "feel" things.

If something (living or not) cannot experience suffering then you can’t harm it, by definition

This follows no definition of harm that I am aware of, and I do not agree with it. If you are not aware that you have been harmed, you are still harmed. So you should also be able to be harmed even when you could not be aware of it. Therefore, I do not accept this sentiocentric (just learned this word) argument.

There are good reasons to treat different beings differently but they should be based on the beings’ interests, not their species

And this is one of those reasons. A human's (or any other animal's) continued existence is mutually exclusive with the food's continued existence. If we do not follow speciest dogma, we might as well eat other humans.

[–] 4lan@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I've heard this tired argument that plants and sentient mammals have the same capacity for suffering so many times. I think it is a disingenuous way of excusing the suffering your choices support.

A plant does not grieve when it's offspring is removed from it. It does not have fear, or joy. Plants don't play with each other and bond.

Yes. They communicate, and react to stimuli. So does a computer, but neither are sentient

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[–] RobbieGM@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The line you mention is sentience, for many

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[–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There is a lot of waste from the agricultural process that needs to be considered as well, like fertilizer run off into rivers, etc.

[–] 4lan@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Which applies even more to meat production. You have to grow massive amounts to feed livestock, more than if we just grew and ate the food directly.

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Its not bad in my world

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