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Players More Inefficient Scoring than Allen Iverson (alien.top)
submitted 11 months ago by Swimming-Bad3512@alien.top to c/nba@nba.space
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Allen Iverson is casually known for being the Beacon of Inefficient Scoring.

Looking at Iverson through his overall Regular Season Career 2PT converted Points Per Shot or rTS%, his relative TS% is -0.9% TS+ 98. Here are former & current players who more inefficient scoring the basketball than Allen Iverson in their respective careers: ■Isiah Thomas: relative TS% -2.1% TS+ 96 ●Peak Scoring – 1986: 22PPG IA/75 on +1.3 rTS% ●Scoring Efficiency was Below league average every year of his Regular Season Career outside of 1986.

■Mahmoud Abdul Rauf(Chris Jackson): relative TS% -2.7% TS+ 95 ●Peak Scoring – 1995: 23.4PPG IA/75 on +0% rTS% ●Scoring Efficiency was Below league average every year of his Regular Season career outside of 1995.

■John Starks: relative TS% -1.8% TS+ 97 ●Peak Scoring – 1994: 23PPG IA/75 on -1.2% rTS ●Scoring Efficiency was Below league average 11 out of 15 years of his career.

■Latrell Sprewell: relative TS% -1.1% TS+ 98 ●Peak Scoring – 1997: 24PPG IA/75 on +3.4% rTS ●Scoring Efficiency Below League Average 10 out of 13 Seasons in the NBA.

■Jason Kidd: relative TS% -2.3% TS+ 96 ●Peak Scoring – 2003: 22PPG IA/75 on +0.7% rTS ●Scoring Efficiency Below League Average 14 out of 18 Seasons in the NBA.

■Chris Webber: relative TS% -1.4% TS+ 97 ●Peak Scoring – 2002: 30PPG IA/75 on +2% rTS ●Scoring Efficiency Below League Average 10 out of 15 Seasons in the NBA.

■Jermaine O’neal: relative TS% -1.2% TS+ 97 ●Peak Scoring – 2003: 24PPG IA/75 on +2% rTS ●Scoring Efficiency Below League Average 13 out of 18 Seasons in the NBA.

■Metta World Peace(Ron Artest): relative TS% -2.3% TS+ 96 ●Peak Scoring – 2003: 20PPG IA/75 on +1% rTS ●Scoring Efficiency Below League Average 16 out of 18 Seasons in the NBA.(Averaged 16 FGA per 75 from 2003-2009; Below League Average Efficiency every year except 2005 where he only played 7 games due to Season long suspension)

■Nick Van Exel: relative TS% -2% TS+ 96 ●Peak Scoring – 1998: 18PPG IA/75 on +1.4% rTS ●Scoring Efficiency Below League Average 11 out 13 Seasons in the NBA.

•Former Players with Similar Career Efficiency: ■Tracy Mcgrady: relative TS% -0.9% TS+ 99 ●Peak Scoring – 2003 35PPG IA/75 on +4.5 rTS ●Scoring Efficiency Below League Average 11 out of 15 Seasons in the NBA. TS+ was never above 102 or rTS of +1% outside of 2003

■Pete Maravich: relative TS% -0.7% TS+ 99 ●Peak Scoring – 1976 26PPG IA/75 on +2% rTS ●Scoring Efficiency Below League Average 7 out of 10 Seasons in the NBA. Led the league in Scoring in 1977 averaging 31.1 ppg on -1.9% rTS

•Active Players ■Donovan Mitchell: 2018: -1.5% rTS 2019: -2.3% rTS 2020: -0.7% rTS 2021: -0.3% rTS 2022: +0.6% rTS 2023: +3.3% rTS Career -0.2% rTS

■Dejounte Murray: 2017: -4.9% rTS 2018: -7.1% rTS 2020: -4.1% rTS 2021: -6.3% rTS 2022: -3.3% rTS 2023: -4.1% rTS Career relative True Shooting: -4.7% rTS Career TS+ 93

■Pascal Siakam: 2017: -2.9% rTS 2018: -0.7% rTS 2019: +6.8% rTS 2020: -1.1% rTS 2021: -2.5% rTS 2022: -0.1% rTS 2023: -2.6% rTS Career relative True Shooting: +0.0%

■CJ McCollum: 2014: -2.1% rTS 2015:: +0.0% rTS 2016: +0.3% rTS 2017: +3.3% rTS 2018: -2% rTS 2019: -0.7% rTS 2020: -2.4% rTS 2021: +0.5% rTS 2022: -1.3% rTS 2023: -4% rTS

Career relative TS+ 99

Any player’s Efficiency you’re surprised by?

top 23 comments
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[–] Wes_119@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

me

[–] JoeyPeePee24@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Pistol played in the no 3pt era so it’s not really fair to compare his TS% to guys from the 3 era. He was far and away a better shooter than anyone on this list.

[–] WondrousIdeals@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's why they used relative true shooting. Maravich was below league average efficiency in his time.

[–] JoeyPeePee24@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Yes, bc he shot from 3pt range and beyond, which was a bad %age shot back then. Also league avg during the center era is not going to favor guys like him. TS% makes a lot more sense in the 3pt era

[–] Rahnamatta@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

There was a study of Pete's shots from distance and he made tons of those threes that counted as twos

Somebody made that and it was like a 40ppg on college

[–] Level_Ad_6372@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

He already averaged 44 ppg lol

You're thinking of the quote from his old coach, who said he went back and watched film and determined that Pete made 13 3P shots a game. Which is kind of nonsense, because he only made 16.7 shots total. So that means he would've made 3.7 2-pointers, 13 3-pointers, and 10.8 free throws per game. The shot distribution makes no sense (you don't draw 14 FT attempts a game by taking 80% of your shots from 3)

[–] Swimming-Bad3512@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Relative TS% is only comparing Efficiency to the players' scoring Efficiency of the times.

You can only compare players relative to the rules & strategies of the times in which they're playing in.

Lack of a 3pt shot didn't stop Tiny Archibald, a player smaller than Pete Maravich, from being efficient. Same for Gail Goodrich, Rick Barry & David Thompson.

The truth is Pete Maravich just took way too many shot attempt.

[–] caroline_nein@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Wait, do I get it right? He was an inefficient scorer but should get a pass because he took bad shots?

[–] JoeyPeePee24@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

No, he was not inefficient. He shot the same FG%percentage as players like Kobe, Melo, Pierce, and others. TS% changes everything when the 3 ball is part of the game. But yes, he took bad shots

[–] Level_Ad_6372@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Just for comparison, in '78 Paul Westphal (a guard who was an inch shorter than Pistol) averaged 25/6 on 57% TS. Pistol Pete averaged 27/7 on 49% TS. I think the "era" argument falls apart when you compare him to other guards in his own era.

[–] 2Blitz@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Surprising that Antoine Walker and Jerry Stackhouse isn't on here

[–] EGarrett@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Antoine managed to be an All-Star while having a net negative BPM. One of my favorite bits of info ever.

[–] MediocreJay41@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I would think Jamal Mashburn would be on here as well cause man, he was a lot more inefficient than people realize.

[–] RVAIsTheGreatest@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

McCollum's game being so heavily midrange based hurts his efficiency.

Mash was definitely inefficient, that whole era was littered with inefficient wings playing the wannabe MJ midrange and midpost game. Very few age well. It's a testament to Kobe's greatness he still ages relatively OK although even he isn't spotless by any means.

[–] zmzzx-@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (3 children)

You mostly listed players who contributed high level playmaking, defense, or rebounding.

Iverson only contributing scoring, and he’s not elite at that. This reminds me of when people compare Tim Duncan’s TS% to Kobe’s. One is ONLY a scorer.

[–] Friendly-Thought-973@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Except Kobe isn’t just a scorer …he was an elite defender for much of his career as well as probably a better playmaker.

[–] PatNewbie@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Calling Kobe “ONLY a scorer” is a tad wild lol

[–] TravisPicklez@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I might be the biggest Kobe hater on the thread but if you’re implying he was only a scorer, that’s crazy. He had great defense

[–] JKaro@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I mean he's supposedly a better offensive player than all of these guys, right? Not really surprised by any of these.

JKidd is probably the only player here who was overall as good as AI, mainly cause he was an awesome defender and transition player.

[–] sunpar1@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Yea I don’t really get how this rehabilitates his image in anyway

[–] Sean888888@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

A lot of these players you listed are known for their defense

[–] RVAIsTheGreatest@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Not surprised by any of them honestly. I knew they were all inefficient, especially Metta/Ron who was the worst on this list it seems. He helped the Lakers win the 2010 title but he was really on the downswing by then, by 30 years old he was on the downswing. By 33 or so he was completely done.

TMac was never efficient, a lot of that was shot selection related though and not talent related. Kobe was decently efficient for his era though taking similar shots. Never should those two be compared again.

Isiah won two titles as a team leader. You have to credit him for that and he leveled up in the playoffs, so his turnovers and poor perimeter shooting and ball dominant ways are not held against him as much as they'd be others. He's someone though if he came up in today's era---would be interesting to see how he's judged. He had huge assist totals but was more of a Westbrook (good vision and passing talent but often coming off his own offense) rather than a true playmaking engine the way Nash or Kidd, etc. were.

[–] Pretty_Bowler2297@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Peak Iverson era where every team was trying to find the next Jordan with high usage inefficient gunners was the time I drifted away from the NBA. The games were stagnant and boring. The ball zipping around? Nope, none of that. Iso iso iso. D’Antoni’s Phoenix Suns in 2006 brought exciting team ball back starting a trend that all the other teams emulated and brought me back to watching.