I started paying for Kagi a few months ago and I'm loving it. Search results and tools are great. People balk at paying for a search engine, but at least this way I know I'm not the product.
this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2023
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The weird thing for me is that by paying to use, you will need to be uniquely identified, and that opens doors for losing privacy in several ways. How is that addressed by kagi?
They address this on their website and go in further detail on their privacy policy. You'd have to read through that to decide if they do enough to earn your trust. But in my opinion not having any advertising removes most of their incentive to try to collect user data. I suppose there could be a temptation to collect the data to resell, but since a large portion of their income relies on the reputation of being a search alternative that has a focus on privacy I feel the risk to their reputation would be greater than whatever revenue that would generate.
Of course there are all kinds of companies that flew too close to the sun and sold out user privacy for a Coke and a smile. I've decided to go with Kagi and have been very happy with them so far. If they ever sell out I'll cash out, but they seem to be the best option for me right now.
Kagi has been great. I'd like to see more searches on their $5 plan as 300 searches a month doesn't feel adequate. It has been great being able to promote, demote, and block sites from searching and I have found my results to be more helpful and relevant than Google alternatives I tried. I don't think I have used Google search at all since signing up. Highly recommend.
I've been loving my kagi trial. I used my 100 searches. I'll wait to see how long I can suffer before I buy it.
DuckDuckGo from the browser, because 90% of the time I can get where I want with the appropriate ! bang from the address bar.
With the appropriate ! bang from the address bar
What does this mean? I want to like DuckDuckGo, but it’s kinda messy.
They are basically shortcuts. For example, I can type "!w ibuprofen" into DuckDuckGo (or the address bar because I have it set as my default search engine) and be brought immediately to the wikipedia page for Ibuprofen. There's also !yt for youtube search, !so for stack overflow search, and many more.
Using qwant because it's developed and hosted in France. Better than supporting a US company as a European.
But qwant uses bing
So you're still supporting Microsoft
They use their own indexer.
I think there was some drama a while ago about them collecting and sharing data which got them delisted from PrivacyGuides? Not a good look imo.
Default search in Firefox: SearXNG (List of Instances) (solves 60-80%)
if not the solution, I then search for "dd [term]" which goes to duckduckgo. Solves mostly the rest.
If not, and I am really desperate, I try: "dd !g [term]" so it goes to ddg, redirects to google and then I am reminded how bad a first page result can be. Only ads, sponsored entries and only big company names. Good luck finding anything from a forum or a small blog on google today. All the search words are bundled up in company results that has nothing to do with the topic.
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(5 replies)
ddg.gg for the win.
Started using them when I confronted the Google filter bubble for the first time.
But what totally sold me? DDG provided me link for a product I had searched for in vain on Google for years at that point, using the exact same query.
Please reveal the product. I am consumed by curiosity.
Steel leveling jacks, manual, center screw variety, used extensively for leveling mobile homes back in the day.
First time I used DDG to look for them, BOOM, half way down the page a manufacturer in Enid, OK. G? Literally for years kept serving me up pneumatic, expensive, industrial gear or services.
That is definitely not what I was expecting
That is definitely not what I was expecting
Please reveal what you were expecting. I am consumed by curiosity.
Your post may have just convinced me to try ddg. My problem with Google is that increasingly it does not give me what I am looking for and instead gives me what it thinks I should want. From your description it sounds like ddg is what Google used to be.
Pretty much. They deliver a couple of sponsored entries per search, but even those have been occasionally productive. No harm in trying for a while, you can always change if it’s not working. GL&HF!
Does anyone have experience/thoughts about Mojeek?
I just recently learned about it and haven't really explored it, but curious.
Thanks!
I've played with it a bit. It's just okay to me. I'd rather just use DDG.
I recently started using Duck Duck Go instead of Google.
I still had this thought that Google was the best technology as I went from the early web (remember... altavista.digital.com, yahoo, ...) and I remember that Google was really a game changer when it started to become popular.
I tested setting DDG as default search engine in my desktop and mobile browsers, thinking that when I don't have expected results I would go to Google... I never had to switch to Google because I was wrong, DDG is as good as Google while being better from privacy point of view.
For the browser I use Vivaldi on both android and desktop.
I'm using an Ad-, Tracking- etc blocker in all my devices, so I'm not too worried about using Google or Bing when I do.
But I'm hosting my own instance of SearchXNG and that's often simply the most powerful and flexible search engine.
Also self-host SearchXNG. Its definitely the way to go. I like you can choose which search engines to pull from
I replied to another comment on here saying that I'd tried this once before, via a Docker container, but just wasn't getting any results back (kept getting timeouts from all the search engines).
I've just revisited it, and still get the timeouts. Reckon you're able to help me troubleshoot it?
Below are the logs from Portainer:
File "/usr/local/searxng/searx/network/__init__.py", line 165, in get
return request('get', url, **kwargs)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
File "/usr/local/searxng/searx/network/__init__.py", line 98, in request
raise httpx.TimeoutException('Timeout', request=None) from e
httpx.TimeoutException: Timeout
2023-08-06 09:58:13,651 ERROR:searx.engines.soundcloud: Fail to initialize
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/local/searxng/searx/network/__init__.py", line 96, in request
return future.result(timeout)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
File "/usr/lib/python3.11/concurrent/futures/_base.py", line 458, in result
raise TimeoutError()
TimeoutError
The above exception was the direct cause of the following exception:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/local/searxng/searx/search/processors/abstract.py", line 75, in initialize
self.engine.init(get_engine_from_settings(self.engine_name))
File "/usr/local/searxng/searx/engines/soundcloud.py", line 69, in init
guest_client_id = get_client_id()
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
File "/usr/local/searxng/searx/engines/soundcloud.py", line 45, in get_client_id
response = http_get("https://soundcloud.com")
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
File "/usr/local/searxng/searx/network/__init__.py", line 165, in get
return request('get', url, **kwargs)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
File "/usr/local/searxng/searx/network/__init__.py", line 98, in request
raise httpx.TimeoutException('Timeout', request=None) from e
httpx.TimeoutException: Timeout
2023-08-06 09:58:13,654 ERROR:searx.engines.soundcloud: Fail to initialize
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/local/searxng/searx/network/__init__.py", line 96, in request
return future.result(timeout)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
File "/usr/lib/python3.11/concurrent/futures/_base.py", line 458, in result
raise TimeoutError()
TimeoutError
The above exception was the direct cause of the following exception:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/local/searxng/searx/search/processors/abstract.py", line 75, in initialize
self.engine.init(get_engine_from_settings(self.engine_name))
File "/usr/local/searxng/searx/engines/soundcloud.py", line 69, in init
guest_client_id = get_client_id()
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
File "/usr/local/searxng/searx/engines/soundcloud.py", line 45, in get_client_id
response = http_get("https://soundcloud.com")
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
File "/usr/local/searxng/searx/network/__init__.py", line 165, in get
return request('get', url, **kwargs)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
File "/usr/local/searxng/searx/network/__init__.py", line 98, in request
raise httpx.TimeoutException('Timeout', request=None) from e
httpx.TimeoutException: Timeout
2023-08-06 10:02:05,024 ERROR:searx.engines.wikidata: engine timeout
2023-08-06 10:02:05,024 ERROR:searx.engines.duckduckgo: engine timeout
2023-08-06 10:02:05,024 ERROR:searx.engines.google: engine timeout
2023-08-06 10:02:05,024 ERROR:searx.engines.qwant: engine timeout
2023-08-06 10:02:05,024 ERROR:searx.engines.startpage: engine timeout
2023-08-06 10:02:05,024 ERROR:searx.engines.wikibooks: engine timeout
2023-08-06 10:02:05,024 ERROR:searx.engines.wikiquote: engine timeout
2023-08-06 10:02:05,024 ERROR:searx.engines.wikisource: engine timeout
2023-08-06 10:02:05,025 ERROR:searx.engines.wikipecies: engine timeout
2023-08-06 10:02:05,025 ERROR:searx.engines.wikiversity: engine timeout
2023-08-06 10:02:05,025 ERROR:searx.engines.wikivoyage: engine timeout
2023-08-06 10:02:05,025 ERROR:searx.engines.brave: engine timeout
2023-08-06 10:02:05,481 WARNING:searx.engines.wikidata: ErrorContext('searx/search/processors/online.py', 118, "response = req(params['url'], **request_args)", 'httpx.TimeoutException', None, (None, None, None)) False
2023-08-06 10:02:05,481 ERROR:searx.engines.wikidata: HTTP requests timeout (search duration : 6.457878380082548 s, timeout: 6.0 s) : TimeoutException
2023-08-06 10:02:05,482 WARNING:searx.engines.wikisource: ErrorContext('searx/search/processors/online.py', 118, "response = req(params['url'], **request_args)", 'httpx.TimeoutException', None, (None, None, None)) False
2023-08-06 10:02:05,484 ERROR:searx.engines.wikisource: HTTP requests timeout (search duration : 6.460748491808772 s, timeout: 6.0 s) : TimeoutException
2023-08-06 10:02:05,485 WARNING:searx.engines.brave: ErrorContext('searx/search/processors/online.py', 118, "response = req(params['url'], **request_args)", 'httpx.TimeoutException', None, (None, None, None)) False
2023-08-06 10:02:05,485 ERROR:searx.engines.brave: HTTP requests timeout (search duration : 6.461546086706221 s, timeout: 6.0 s) : TimeoutException
2023-08-06 10:02:05,487 WARNING:searx.engines.google: ErrorContext('searx/search/processors/online.py', 118, "response = req(params['url'], **request_args)", 'httpx.TimeoutException', None, (None, None, None)) False
2023-08-06 10:02:05,487 ERROR:searx.engines.google: HTTP requests timeout (search duration : 6.463769535068423 s, timeout: 6.0 s) : TimeoutException
2023-08-06 10:02:05,489 WARNING:searx.engines.wikiversity: ErrorContext('searx/search/processors/online.py', 118, "response = req(params['url'], **request_args)", 'httpx.TimeoutException', None, (None, None, None)) False
2023-08-06 10:02:05,489 ERROR:searx.engines.wikiversity: HTTP requests timeout (search duration : 6.466003180015832 s, timeout: 6.0 s) : TimeoutException
2023-08-06 10:02:05,490 WARNING:searx.engines.wikivoyage: ErrorContext('searx/search/processors/online.py', 118, "response = req(params['url'], **request_args)", 'httpx.TimeoutException', None, (None, None, None)) False
2023-08-06 10:02:05,490 ERROR:searx.engines.wikivoyage: HTTP requests timeout (search duration : 6.466597221791744 s, timeout: 6.0 s) : TimeoutException
2023-08-06 10:02:05,490 WARNING:searx.engines.qwant: ErrorContext('searx/search/processors/online.py', 118, "response = req(params['url'], **request_args)", 'httpx.TimeoutException', None, (None, None, None)) False
2023-08-06 10:02:05,490 ERROR:searx.engines.qwant: HTTP requests timeout (search duration : 6.4669976509176195 s, timeout: 6.0 s) : TimeoutException
2023-08-06 10:02:05,491 WARNING:searx.engines.wikibooks: ErrorContext('searx/search/processors/online.py', 118, "response = req(params['url'], **request_args)", 'httpx.TimeoutException', None, (None, None, None)) False
2023-08-06 10:02:05,491 ERROR:searx.engines.wikibooks: HTTP requests timeout (search duration : 6.4674198678694665 s, timeout: 6.0 s) : TimeoutException
2023-08-06 10:02:05,491 WARNING:searx.engines.wikiquote: ErrorContext('searx/search/processors/online.py', 118, "response = req(params['url'], **request_args)", 'httpx.TimeoutException', None, (None, None, None)) False
2023-08-06 10:02:05,492 WARNING:searx.engines.wikipecies: ErrorContext('searx/search/processors/online.py', 118, "response = req(params['url'], **request_args)", 'httpx.TimeoutException', None, (None, None, None)) False
2023-08-06 10:02:05,492 ERROR:searx.engines.wikiquote: HTTP requests timeout (search duration : 6.468321242835373 s, timeout: 6.0 s) : TimeoutException
2023-08-06 10:02:05,492 ERROR:searx.engines.wikipecies: HTTP requests timeout (search duration : 6.468797960784286 s, timeout: 6.0 s) : TimeoutException
2023-08-06 10:02:05,496 WARNING:searx.engines.duckduckgo: ErrorContext('searx/engines/duckduckgo.py', 98, 'res = get(query_url, headers=headers)', 'httpx.TimeoutException', None, (None, None, None)) False
2023-08-06 10:02:05,497 ERROR:searx.engines.duckduckgo: HTTP requests timeout (search duration : 6.47349306801334 s, timeout: 6.0 s) : TimeoutException
2023-08-06 10:02:05,511 WARNING:searx.engines.startpage: ErrorContext('searx/engines/startpage.py', 214, 'resp = get(get_sc_url, headers=headers)', 'httpx.TimeoutException', None, (None, None, None)) False
2023-08-06 10:02:05,511 ERROR:searx.engines.startpage: HTTP requests timeout (search duration : 6.487425099126995 s, timeout: 6.0 s) : TimeoutException
2023-08-06 10:04:27,475 ERROR:searx.engines.duckduckgo: engine timeout
2023-08-06 10:04:27,770 WARNING:searx.engines.duckduckgo: ErrorContext('searx/search/processors/online.py', 118, "response = req(params['url'], **request_args)", 'httpx.TimeoutException', None, (None, None, None)) False
2023-08-06 10:04:27,771 ERROR:searx.engines.duckduckgo: HTTP requests timeout (search duration : 3.2968566291965544 s, timeout: 3.0 s) : TimeoutException
2023-08-06 10:04:50,094 ERROR:searx.engines.duckduckgo: engine timeout
2023-08-06 10:04:50,187 WARNING:searx.engines.duckduckgo: ErrorContext('searx/engines/duckduckgo.py', 98, 'res = get(query_url, headers=headers)', 'httpx.ConnectTimeout', None, (None, None, 'duckduckgo.com')) False
2023-08-06 10:04:50,187 ERROR:searx.engines.duckduckgo: HTTP requests timeout (search duration : 3.0933595369569957 s, timeout: 3.0 s) : ConnectTimeout
The above is a simple search for "best privacy focused search engines 2023", followed by the same search again but using the ddg! bang in front of it.
I can post my docker-compose if it helps?
First thing that comes to mind is are you running it on Host Network? That's a requirement
For search engine, I go with SearXNG, and for web browser, Mull. Or hardened Firefox, on PC.
Do you use a self-hosted SearXNG, or one of the other hosted instances?
Self-hosted under a VPN would be the way to go if you want to be 100% sure.
The problem with public instances is that you can't really know what the owner does with the data. There are safe ones, and malicious ones. I'd just look for one that has a good reputation.
Yeah I have a self-hosted one but I’m struggling to get results. I posted under another comment on this thread, was just gonna ask for some support troubleshooting.
Completely agree though, self hosting over public instances all day long.
I am using startpage.com since they include Google results and DDG just has bad results sometimes
Currently using Startpage and my only criticism of it is that it is noticeably slower than the other 2 that I have used DDG and Brave
I would recommend DDG for most and Startpage only for the people who don't want to use Google search anymore but want similar if not identical search results
I did change the default search engine of some of my relatives to Startpage without them knowing:)
I use Firefox as main browser, but I discovered for my use case google provides the best results without needing to setup every workstation e.g. 2 home PCs, 1 mobile, 2 for work. And that I need to use all main 3 browsers. Also google provide good service with functions to quickly make currency conversions, simple math ekvations etc which even Bing is far behind.
"AI" services will change this but for now it's too slow.
But in general for me, I have given up that fact to try stay private many years back, it's all a dream just like living off grid, 99% of would not survive 4 days.
But the information can be scrambled, ie shift user accounts, services, software etc. It would also provide better competition due to the userbase is moving around... But most of us are too lazy or afraid to lose history, backups, photos etc. Just see how many that can't just delete an old reddit account due to the time spent to reach an level you aren't ready to leave. To lead to famous qoute I follow online
"Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner"
Its all about supporting the services you like and are trying to be an counterweight to the other common commercial services... Meaning we need to found/pay for good services, privacy is a luxary looking on the whole user base.
Companies, I based on an idea, but exist to make someone money and if it's tracks it will make many people money and in the end majority will lead the company to earn money and leave the base idea behind.
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