No no no! When you break something in Linux systems you fix it. Starting over and reinstalling everything is what you do when you mess up on Windows.
Linux
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
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Funny I did not expect so many people that resist starting over. Next time I'll give fixing stuff a shot :)
I would actually be amazed if I ever bricked a PC fucking around with installing software to it. At the very worst, I might have to move a jumper pin to flash the CMOS and start fresh like I never even touched the thing. If somehow even that fails, it would be a unique experience.
Pretty much everytime I try to do fancy stuff with the bootloader I get pretty close to nuking systems. Worst was my 1st UEFI system where I was trying to get rEFInd to show multiple OS to boot from... eventually gave up and went back to the warm embrace of GRUB
If you take the plunge and switch to systemd-boot it's worth it. It's the only boot manager I've tried in the last decade that feels like an upgrade from GRUB.
It's even better if your only internet connection is that computer you broke.
Ah yes, reminds me of messing with my 1st pfSense firewall... I learned how good their recovery process was that evening
Just bricked my Proxmox install an hour ago and I had the pleasure to learn their recovery process sucks. (At least for my case)
Ah, yeah, you've just reminded me, I must move my stuff off proxmox when I get a chance.
I tried that proxmox backup thing when I first set it up, good god what a complex mess... backup & recovery needs to be as simple and as smooth as possible.
Great incentive to learn even faster
And enforces the value of installing documentation and source packages 😅
Maybe 1 or 2 back when things were less stable, but any time I have used Linux in the past 7 years or so, and particularly since I started using Debian as my primary OS, I haven't had any problems outside of trying to get some windows applications to emulate correctly, and one time when I echo'd into sources.list with > instead of >>. Anything else is just stuff I had to learn, like my boot folder filling up with old images that have to be cleaned out occasionally.
Never the kernel but just about every time I touch /etc/fstab I fuck something up. I've done that a lot....
Oh, I typed that line wrong to mount the drive and because the non-os drive isn't detected you're only going to boot to emergency mode?
Cool cool cool.
.... So what should I try Linux again?
You mean why? Because you're using your bare machine, you can use it as you wish. No nanny software limiting the fun or productivity
Yeah but breaking like six computers to do it, or one computer six times, seems like a pretty steep price for that when I basically just use my computer for gaming browsing and the occasional audio/video edit.
OP said breaking the kernel, not the machine. The computers would be fine, its pretty damn difficult to brick a computer using software, at least by accident.
Normal users will not break their kernel, op is likely doing some advanced tinkering. I have been using Linux for years and am definitely an advanced user and Ive broken my kernel zero times.
Gotcha, that's reassuring
Nah, if you're installing something user friendly (ie Linux Mint just for an example) it'll work 1st time, guaranteed - or your money back.
But... you'll only really learn once you've fubar'd something... just like ~~falling off~~ riding a bike
I want double my money back if the free program doesn't work!
I tried to use dd with too much hubris once. I had to restore from backups (which ironically, I had made with dd). I'm usually overly cautious, but I was in a hurry.
I did this one a few weeks ago lmao. You think once would be enough. But I am a truly special being.
1
So, when you say crippled kernel, do you actually mean you tweaked the kernel params/build to the point that it failed to boot? Or do you just mean you messed up some package config to the point that the normal boot sequence didn't get you to a place you knew how to recover from and need to reinstall from scratch?
I think I'm past the point where I need to do a full reinstall to recover from my mistakes. As long as I get a shell, I can usually undo whatever I did. I have btrfs+timeshift also set up, but I've never had to use it.
Uhm, zero? With ten years of using Linux? What did you do to fuck up the damn kernel? o_O
It can be done if you mess with the initramfs.
The kernel starts everything else by unpacking an archive containing a minimal environment to set stuff up for later. Such as loading needed kernel modules, decrypting your drive, etc. It then launches, by default, the /init program (mines a shell script).
That program is PID 1. If it dies, your kernel will panic.
After it finishes setup, it execs your actual /sbin/init. These means it dies, and that program (systemd, openrc, dinit, runit, etc) becomes PID 1. If an issue happens, both could fail to execute and the kernel will loop forever.
Thank you for explanation :) I suspected something like that - mess up with some internals, you do have a chance to bring the thing down. Which is why I always have a bootable usb around before doing anything risky
It's the same as learning anything, really. A big part of learning to draw is making thousands of bad drawings. A big part of learning DIY skills is not being afraid to cut a hole in the wall. Plan to screw up. Take your time, be patient with yourself, and read ahead so none of the potential screw-ups hurt you. Don't be afraid to look foolish, reality is absurd, it's fine.
We give children largess to fail because they have everything to learn. Then, as adults, we don't give ourselves permission to fail. But why should we be any better than children at new things? Many adults have forgotten how fraught the process of learning new skills is and when they fail they get scared and frustrated and quit. That's just how learning feels. Kids cry a lot. Puttering around on a spare computer is an extremely safe way to become reacquainted with that feeling and that will serve you well even if you decide you don't like Linux and never touch it again. Worst case you fucked up an old laptop that was collecting dust. That is way better than cutting a hole in the wall and hitting a pipe.
So this is why I'm bad at drawing. I have 954 more drawings to go!
See that would be a good analogy if the fail was fun.
Making a shit painting is still fun.
Having to reinstall my OS because I ran pacman -Syu and now my computer won't boot, and now I have to spend hours making things work again: not at all fun.
Having my server run out of memory and freeze up instead of having a sane out of memory behavior the day before a long trip: not fun
It's also archaic, niche information. Do I want to learn how to make a kernel version that didn't get installed right show up in grub? Fuck no. Do I want to google for the 100th time what command exists to register the encryption key for my hard drive in the TPM? Fuck no. What an absolute waste of life.
Linux isn't "I cut a hole in my wall" it's "my electrician only documented the wiring in hieroglyphs and now I have to reverse engineer everything to turn on a light bulb".
The "starting over" part is what made it take so long for linux to "stick" with me.
Once it became "restore from an earlier image", it was a game changer!
Every time I install or configure anything, it's done via CLI and added to a script. Makes setup a breeze.
My game changer was circa 2014 when I broke something and got dropped to a basic shell and for the first time instead of panicking and immediately reinstalling I thought for a moment about what I had just done to break it, and undid the change manually. Wouldn't you know it booted right up like normal.
The lesson here: if it broke, you probably broke it, and if you know how you broke it, you know how to fix it.
100%
The alternative being variations on:
Hi my name is [redacted], I have [X] years experience.
Please run
sfc /scannow
.You can find more help at [Irrelevant KB URL].
Please rank me 5 stars.
Ticket closed
OpenSUSE Tumbleweed helps because you can create a btrfs snapshot at any moment and then roll back to it if you get in trouble. And it does this automatically whenever you update the packages.
OpenSUSE Tumbleweed Gang. The only distro I haven't been able to break after 6 months (well, I have, but I've been able to snapper rollback every time)
Another big part is learning how to set it up in a way that it's functional and productive the first time and then STOP FUCKING WITH IT.
I get mine set up how I want then create an HD image that I run in a VM for fucking with.
Recently I accidently deleted the contents of /boot/ on my first arch install. The lesson that followed was something I would have rather saved for later ^^
Making errors and analysing them to figure out what went wrong and why is a huge part of learning. You can only learn so much from theory, some things can be learned best by trial and error and the experience gained from it.
When I started with Linux I did choose to use Gentoo Linux because it was the most complex and complicated option, so I had the most opportunities to learn something by ducking up!
I think we are using linux very differently. Mine is two and one of those was a dead ssd.
I haven't majorly fucked up any recent systems (almost botched the steam deck once or twice but nothing that required a reinstall), but god 10 years ago I probably reset my arch dual boot like five times lmao